Browser, other than Safari, for those who run High Sierra

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Had Chrome as an alternative to Safari, but just got msg saying I have to move my OS to 10.16.1 (impossible on my mid 2011 iMac) or I would not receive Chrome updates. I was using chrome because Safari does not show comments section on article. Chrome did. Not sure why Safari does not show comments section.
I like Safari, but sometimes I like to read comments on stories. So, is Brave, Bing or ____ ? a good choice?

Pete
 

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Hi Pete

Choice is slightly limited. For example, according to the Brave Support Group, Brave Browser does not install on Mac OS High Sierra:


Regards FireFox, it can be downloaded but it converts to Extended Support Release:


The problem I see is that any Browser which can co-operate with High Sierra may have restricted options including what you're after.

Ian
 

Raz0rEdge

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That iMac is now 12+ years old and as you've found, most apps have moved ahead and require at least macOS 11 Big Sur since that's now about 3 years old. For constantly maintained applications, it gets cumbersome to maintain support for really old versions of the OS.

You might want to start thinking about upgrading your Mac to get back into the supported realm again so that you can use the later versions of the OS and applications.

This, obviously, means that you'll have to evaluate what applications you currently use and ensure that they will continue to work on new machines or won't require expensive upgrades. If you have applications that don't support 64-bit, that'll be another hinderance.

On the whole, if you're going to continue using an old/unsupported Mac then you will just have to use the software that was available around the time it was available. For example, if you were to go back (not that you can find) and grab a version of Chrome that was supported back in 2012 or so, and NEVER upgrade it, it would likely be OK unless Chrome decided to stop working unless you upgraded.

Creating a time cocoon around your machine doesn't work. Once Apple obsoletes your hardware, it's realistically time to start thinking about upgrading.
 
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Had Chrome as an alternative to Safari, but just got msg saying I have to move my OS to 10.16.1 (impossible on my mid 2011 iMac) or I would not receive Chrome updates.

I also have a 2011 iMac 27" and have not been able to use Safari for years as too many sites and things just would not work properly, but I have been very happy going back to using Google Chrome where everything seems to work, even though I'm still using OS X 10.11.6 El Capitan and will probably stay there for quite some time until I am forced to change.

And yes Google Chrome provides an update message that a later more recent macOS version would be required should I ever want or need to update, but I don't have such a want or need at present thanks.




- Patrick
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On the whole, if you're going to continue using an old/unsupported Mac then you will just have to use the software that was available around the time it was available

Excuse me, but that type of statement or comment makes absolutely no sense to me and I use a similar 2011 iMac and have been able to update the Mac OS and any of the applications I use on a daily basis to a good working and safe supported situation.

I respect the fact that the newer later machine and software can possibly do more and have more features but not any of them that I really need or can use for that matter.

Not even all the new "features" of later Mac OS versions will even work on this Mac model even though Apple says they are supported in the software. What the **** use is that if they can't even be accessed or used???

I just want or need my iMac and any of my stuff I need to work properly and reliably on a daily basis, even if the equipment and software are older than often suggested as to what should be used, and the continual suggestion of one having to use the "new and improved" seems to come from those where money is the driving force to do so and often turns out to be an oxymoron for the upgrading user.

End of my rent... thanks.

Now back to the regular program, I hope.




- Patrick
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Raz0rEdge

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Excuse me, but that type of statement or comment makes absolutely no sense to me and I use a similar 2011 iMac and have been able to update the Mac OS and any of the applications I use on a daily basis to a good working and safe supported situation.

If a developer chooses to maintain an app to keep it secure and continue to improve it, they'll have to start incorporating new things that become available with newer versions of the OS. While a lot of the functionality is backward compatible, some meaningful things aren't. This now means that multiple versions of the application have to be maintained.

Not being a developer, you might not understand or appreciate the nuance around this, but let me explain at a high level.

A lot of people are familiar with the concept of Stable, Canary and LTS releases of software. In short, stable is the up to date version of a software that is expected to be bug-free without any new features/functionality that requires you to learn anything new or break existing workflows. Canary (also called bleeding edge) is the exploratory version of an application with perhaps non-backward compatible changes, totally new functionality and so on. LTS (Long term support) is the version of the application that is attempts to provide the longest support runway to ensure that things work as they should.

However, everything has a lifetime. Each of these releases means potentially 3 different code bases that are growing apart on a release by release basis. Security changes need to be applied to 3 code bases and modified to fit within the constraints of that code base.

Most commercial app developers will try to follow this pattern. For example, Chrome has the stable and canary releases, they don't do LTS. Safari has the stable and preview (aka canary) releases, etc.

Independent developers will usually focus on the stable release, trying to support anything else is just too time consuming. Additionally, the bulk of the user base generally tends to upgrade computers and OS' frequently enough that this isn't an issue, so you are not going to try to address the small minority that holds onto computers past their prime.

I respect the fact that the newer later machine and software can possibly do more and have more features but not any of them that I really need or can use for that matter.

That's not how it works. Understand that over time as the OS evolves, it deprecates (and eventually) removes functionality that require app changes. This is the normal lifecycle of app development.

Not even all the new "features" of later Mac OS versions will even work on this Mac model even though Apple says they are supported in the software. What the **** use is that if they can't even be accessed or used???

I just want or need my iMac and any of my stuff I need to work properly and reliably on a daily basis, even if the equipment and software are older than often suggested as to what should be used, and the continual suggestion of one having to use the "new and improved" seems to come from those where money is the driving force to do so and often turns out to be an oxymoron for the upgrading user.

End of my rent... thanks.

Now back to the regular program, I hope.

If you're going to keep the iMac in a time capsule because it fits your needs, you're going to have to keep all apps running on it in the same time capsule to avoid breaking anything. You CANNOT do one and not do the other and then complain that the apps aren't working.
- Patrick
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I just want to point out that Google's Chrome browser is a product that many of you will want to stay away from if you value your privacy. Certain parts of Google's Chrome browser are little more than spyware, and using Google's Chrome browser means that not only does it collect info on you, it also slows your Mac down.

https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/chrome

https://chromeisbad.com

https://www.ithinkdiff.com/chrome-slows-down-macs-keystone-updater/

Unlike Safari, which you often can't upgrade because it is linked to the (old) version of the Mac OS you are using, you can still get the very last version of FireFox or iCab that ran under the old version of the Mac OS you are using. (Both products have archives of all old versions.) Usually this will give you the best possible Web surfing experience given how outdated your OS is.

Old FireFox versions:


Old iCab versions:

 
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I just want to point out that Google's Chrome browser is a product that many of you will want to stay away from if you value your privacy. Certain parts of Google's Chrome browser are little more than spyware, and using Google's Chrome browser means that not only does it collect info on you, it also slows your Mac down.


I find it rather strange with all your continual anti-statements about Google Chrome and its apparent personal privacy Invasion and disadvantages and I have been using it for several years now and still find it the better browser for my use and I find it has made no invasion of my privacy but often helps in my browsing needs and it is still by far the fastest browser that I have tried yet Firefox used to be pretty close but they goofed up a lot of things with their recent updates, and personally I just find that Google Chrome works just fine for me thanks and it's not even a recent updated version.

But I'm thankful we have a choice of the browser or browsers we want to use.




- Patrick
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If a developer chooses to maintain an app to keep it secure and continue to improve it, they'll have to start incorporating new things that become available with newer versions of the OS. While a lot of the functionality is backward compatible, some meaningful things aren't. This now means that multiple versions of the application have to be maintained.


Thanks for the info Ashwin, but I don't really care if a developer chooses to maintain or even improve an application or not as long as it continues to work at least as well as it did when I first paid for or received such an application with the MacOS version I happen to be using on my older iMac.

I don't care if it is "still supported" or not, as long as it continues to work for my needs as it did when I first obtained it to do what I wanted. But I really don't need to be continually reminded that I need a newer Mac model to use such software that still works, whether it be "supported" or not.

I do respect and take my hat off to those Developers who do keep updating and maintaining their software and coping with all the changes that Apple happens to make, sometimes for no apparent reason, but I do know they really like to sell new equipment and keep the bean counters happy. That's part of the world we live in where money basically rules.



- Patrick
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Raz0rEdge

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Thanks for the info Ashwin, but I don't really care if a developer chooses to maintain or even improve an application or not as long as it continues to work at least as well as it did when I first paid for or received such an application with the MacOS version I happen to be using on my older iMac.

I don't care if it is "still supported" or not, as long as it continues to work for my needs as it did when I first obtained it to do what I wanted. But I really don't need to be continually reminded that I need a newer Mac model to use such software that still works, whether it be "supported" or not.

I do respect and take my hat off to those Developers who do keep updating and maintaining their software and coping with all the changes that Apple happens to make, sometimes for no apparent reason, but I do know they really like to sell new equipment and keep the bean counters happy. That's part of the world we live in where money basically rules.



- Patrick
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My point exactly, as long as you KEEP the version of the app exactly as it was when you first got it and never update it. It will totally work and continue working forever.

What people usually end up doing is upgrading the applications while not doing anything about the OS and hardware and suddenly finding themselves in a situation where the app needs a newer version of the OS to operate.

There are folks out there who are using Windows 95 and a small set of applications to perform many duties without issues. The reason this works is that everything on that system is locked down, nothing gets upgraded, and as such time doesn't move for them and things just continue to work. Most of these systems are also removed from the Internet since they are only used for doing local work.

If that kind of rigor isn't you, then upgrade. 😃
 
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What people usually end up doing is upgrading the applications while not doing anything about the OS and hardware and suddenly finding themselves in a situation where the app needs a newer version of the OS to operate.

Well, that doesn't make any sense to me or I don't understand exactly what you are saying, but why would anyone upgrade any of the applications they already have to a version that wouldn't work on the OS or the hardware that they own?

What I see happening often is people being convinced that they need an almost brand-new Mac in order to be "fully supported" with all the latest "security updates" even if the software or code that caused the needed security update in the first place wouldn't even run on their older machine.

By the way, speaking of "security updates", if the Mac's OS is immune to most known viruses, that basically leaves malware and scams to mess up one's Mac, so how does a security update prevent that from happening when all that is actually probably required is a little bit of brain input from the user.

It seems a bit odd that Apple never seems to mention anywhere what the actual "security updates" actually do or protect against other than possibly stating some code number only known to a few that are involved in that area.

Oh well, isn't computer use fun and exciting... But I seem to be taking this thread a bit off-topic, so I offer my apologies for doing so.

Take care.




- Patrick
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Rod


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I have a 2010 white unibody Macbook running High Sierra and I also run Brave browser on it it but I did install it some time ago and was informed recently via a dialogue box that the next version of Brave would not be supported on High Sierra. The current version continues to run but I'm not sure for how much longer.
My guess is now that I have turned of Auto Update it will continue to run the current version.
Older versions are available if you search for them, not a recommending it but this site has a "signed" macOS version 1.12.112 and there are others; Brave Browser
Vivaldi also works on High Sierra with their current version as well as the previously mentioned Firefox legacy version.
Bottom line here is, a 13 year old computer cannot be expected to be able to keep up with the technology and security requirements of todays internet.
My old Macbook works as a backup/spare as well as a source of 32bit App Store apps I already owned (especially games) but I would not really trust it for financial transactions or secure data transmission.

Here is an even better link to a Brave Community page with a link for older versions; Download an old version of brave
 
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but I did install it some time ago and was informed recently via a dialogue box that the next version of Brave would not be supported on High Sierra. The current version continues to run but I'm not sure for how much longer.

And why would you think it might stop running if it runs well with its current OS???

Bottom line here is, a 13 year old computer cannot be expected to be able to keep up with the technology and security requirements of todays internet.

And why would you expect or need it to run with the "latest technology and security" if it's working properly with its current operating system???

When was the last time you heard of a Mac User's computer being attacked due to some technology or software security screw-up or attack???

Just curious.




- Patrick
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Rod


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It depends what "working properly" means to you. If you mean it appears to function as expected thats one thing but a little like a malware scanner if you don't update "virus" definitions you will just get a false negative (No Threats Found). Brave will not tell you what trackers or third party cookies it didn't block.
You may not see any difference in browsing experience but you may start getting more spam mail or tailored advertising, pop ups ect.
 
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I find it rather strange with all your continual anti-statements about Google Chrome and its apparent personal privacy Invasion and disadvantages

You might have noticed that I gave citations for this. Did you read those citations?

and I have been using it for several years now and still find it the better browser for my use and I find it has made no invasion of my privacy

Really? How do you know? If your private information was collected, aggregated, and sold, do you suppose that Google would send you a receipt?

You can easily find out how much Google knows about you from spying on you at a number of Web sites. You might find some of the things that they know about you are quite shocking:

https://medium.com/@dougblackjr/what-does-google-know-about-me-1cf7a04e07a0

https://medium.com/geekculture/heres-how-to-find-out-what-google-knows-about-you-cbf1ab3d053c

https://medium.com/productivity-in-...-you-what-google-knows-about-you-f39b8af9decc

https://www.businessinsider.com/what-does-google-know-about-me-search-history-delete-2019-10

but often helps in my browsing needs and it is still by far the fastest browser that I have tried

Brave is based on the same codebase as Chrome, but is even faster because it doesn't have to support the overhead from Chrome's spyware which they stripped out.

If you don't want to believe that Google is spying on you, or if you don't want to change browsers, that's fine. But I can assure that that Google IS spying on you, and that there are better, faster, far more secure, browsers than Chrome. As always, I can give a bunch of citations to back that up. e.g.:

 

Rod


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And why would you think it might stop running if it runs well with its current OS???

Just because I noticed in my searching that Brave have "sundowned" a few versions for early Windows OS but that doesn't mean those versions won't continue to function, just no updates.
 

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