Does Apple Use TRIM on its iDevice's Flash Storage?

[RadDave]

On the iPad Forums, I recently responded to a thread HERE where the OP had deleted all photos from an iPad Pro (iOS 9) in the Camera Roll of the native photos app and also apparently removed them from the 'Recently Deleted' folder - there is no external backup (computer or cloud) - so, the question is whether 'iPad data recovery' software and/or a service could restore these images?

Since modern SSDs likely have TRIM enabled (e.g. on my MBPro, 2013 & as quoted below - Source), I would assume that if I delete files on the laptop and then empty the trash that TRIM would permanently remove those files - BUT, despite googling to figure out if Apple uses TRIM on its iDevice storage, I cannot find a definite answer? If TRIM is used on the iPad Pro in question, then I would assume that the photos are 'gone forever' and that attempting data recovery would be a waste of money? Comments and thoughts would be appreciated. Dave

Solid-State Drives Work Differently: None of this applies to solid state drives (SSDs). When you use a TRIM-enabled SSD (all modern SSDs support TRIM), deleted files are removed immediately and can’t be recovered. Essentially, data can’t be overwritten onto flash cells – to write new data, the contents of the flash memory must first be erased. Your operating system erases files immediately to speed up write performance in the future – if it didn’t erase the file data immediately, the flash memory would first have to be erased before being written to in the future. This would make writing to an SSD slower over time.

 

[chscag]

Good question Dave. There are several recovery applications which purport to be able to recover deleted photos, music, etc. from an iPad, iPhone, and iPod. I can only suggest that one be tested to see if it can indeed recover the deleted data. Also, I'm not so sure that TRIM used on SSD storage devices will permanently delete data to render it unrecoverable. The leading data recovery software packages (Data Rescue 4 and several others) make no mention of that fact.

 

[chas_m]

I don't know for certain, but as Apple does not manufacture its own drives, the real answer is likely to be that whoever makes the drive for Apple implements its own garbage-collection/management scheme, which might well be TRIM or might be their own similar implementation of the same idea.

Bottom line: your hunch is almost certainly right, Dave. That stuff is gone and data recovery is likely to be a waste of time and money.

 

[Raz0rEdge]

There is no TRIM support on iDevices or any of those types of handheld devices. These devices use raw flash memory as opposed to a SSD for storage. The data is managed on these devices in a more basic way by the operating system than with SSDs..

 

[RadDave]

Thanks Guys for your excellent comments - Ashwin stated that the storage in iDevices is just plain 'flash memory' (presumably like a USB drive); so I went to iFixit's iPad Pro's Teardown and viewed the short video and then perused the steps - quite instructive - the storage in the device is Toshiba THGBX5G8D4KLDXG 32 GB NAND Flash memory (as seen in a screen capture below from the video), so certainly not like a standard SSD and supposedly lacking any TRIM feature.

So, I'm back to 'square one,' can deleted data be recovered from this type of iPad storage? I suspect not, but there are a surprising number of hits googling the search terms 'iPad data recovery,' so someone seems to be making money from the practice? - Dave
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[Raz0rEdge]

Flash parts are funny in how you deal with them. You write data to them by toggling regions, but you can do it one bit at a time. You have to do it by sectors. So you first read out an entire sector of data (each part has a different sector size, some are 32k, some are 128k and so on). Once you'e read the data, you toggle the bits in memory, you then go and erase (set to 0's) the enter sector you just read. Then you write out the new contents to the same sector.

This is why flash parts of a write lifecycle, after about 50,000 of these erase/write cycles, the part begins to degrade and doesn't hold the data properly leading to data failure, thus the use of wear leveling (a topic for an entirely different day)..

Anyway, back to your issue at hand. Due to the nature of these parts, I have to guess that if you erased things, its likely gone with no easy way of recovering it.

 

[chscag]

@Dave:

Why not contact the support of one of the more prolific data recovery software developers and ask them if data can be recovered from an SSD? The folks at ProSoft (Data Rescue) have always been responsive when questioned. I still have doubts that once data is deleted from an SSD that it can't be recovered, Trim or no Trim. I too would like to know and since you started the thread..... ;D

 

[RadDave]

@Dave:

Why not contact the support of one of the more prolific data recovery software developers and ask them if data can be recovered from an SSD? The folks at ProSoft (Data Rescue) have always been responsive when questioned. I still have doubts that once data is deleted from an SSD that it can't be recovered, Trim or no Trim. I too would like to know and since you started the thread..... ;D

Thanks Chscag for the suggestion above - just not sure 'how responsive' these people would be if I do not own one of their products and I just want some 'free' advice; e.g. I did go to the ProSoft website and looked @ their Support page - required entries including a specific product (which I do not own), so not an option - I'd also be curious to know the answers to the questions posed in this thread, but just don't know if 'free advice' is going to be available? I'll do some more 'googling' and send a couple of emails - but don't hold your breath on this one - Dave

 

[chas_m]

You can't pick up a phone?

 

[RadDave]

You can't pick up a phone?

Chas_m - I hope that comment was meant in jest - Quoted below is my conception of a phone call to a data recovery service whether about software and/or a service - me thinks an exercise in futility - Dave

ME: Hello, I’m Dave and would like some advice on data recovery.

THEM: Do you own one of our products or want our service?

ME: No, I just want to chat about recovering data from a SSD or iPad.

THEM: We offer software at a price or your device can be sent to us.

ME: But, can you really recover data from the devices mentioned?

THEM: Well, possibly, but you need to pay to find out.

ME: So you don’t know if the data can be recovered?

THEM: Not really until you give us a credit card number.

ME: OK - so free advice is not an option?

THEM: Click - hang up!

ME: Guess a credit card would have worked?

 

[chscag]

LOL, very good Dave. Sounds like you got a "Grinch" on the other end of your phone call! ;P

 

[chas_m]

Dave, I did sort of mean it like a mother -- you don't call, you don't write,

But I was also suggesting that you call PROSOFT, not some random "data recovery service" that wants a credit card first thing. I think you'd find a different experience with them.

 

[pm-r]

Unless PROSOFT has somehow changed their telephone answering methods and attitude lately I'd be very surprised if they didn't try to answer your questions as best as they can, and I wouldn't even be surprised if they didn't get a senior tech involved to help.

It's been a long time, but they were sure helpful years ago when I had to call them. And I guess they just assumed I had paid for and was using one of their commercial products which I was, as they never really asked.

Excellent company and product IMHO.

 

[RadDave]

Well, I did give Prosoft online support a try, and exchanged several emails w/ one of their representatives - quoted below and numbered are three comments pertinent to the questions raised in this thread - I guess that points 1 and 2 are in agreement w/ the thoughts here; now, as far as point 3, I have not been able to find confirmation about the iDevice storage management used by Apple. Dave

P.S. my previous post about a telephone call was completely 'tongue in cheek' and not directed at any specific company and certainly not Prosoft - I have not used their products (to date at least) nor have used their support in the past - just wanted to clarify.

1. Is this specifically in regards to deleted file recovery? Unfortunately if so, we, nor any other software company can recovered deleted files from TRIM enabled SSDs.

2. Non-Trim enabled SSDs still have the possibility to have files recovered once they are deleted.

3. As far as I am aware of, all iDevices are also TRIM-enabled due to the low storage capacity they have and no deleted files can be recovered from them.

Kind Regards,

Gabe
Prosoft Support
www.prosofteng.com

 

[chscag]

Thanks Dave. That's a great bit of information to know. Anyone who is using a SSD or any kind of PCIE Flash memory TRIM enabled, better have at least two running methods of backing up and maybe even three. I know that my next Mac purchase will have a SSD and you can bet that I will be running Time Machine, CCC, and have an off site backup subscription all on going.

 

[chas_m]

As predicted, Prosoft answers the questions without requiring hoop-jumping or money up front. This is why we rate their software and company very highly.

 

[RadDave]

Thanks Dave. That's a great bit of information to know. Anyone who is using a SSD or any kind of PCIE Flash memory TRIM enabled, better have at least two running methods of backing up and maybe even three. I know that my next Mac purchase will have a SSD and you can bet that I will be running Time Machine, CCC, and have an off site backup subscription all on going.

Hi Chscag - I was impressed that Prosoft responded to my several questions so quickly - but wondering if these newer SSDs w/ TRIM (or possibly other 'garbage management' commands) may be putting these companies 'out of business'?

My wife's iMac has a 1 TB fusion drive and will be 3 y/o next spring when Apple Care expires - likely will not replace then but in the future would get her a retina screen, 16 GB RAM, and a SSD (probably 512 GB) - out of curiosity I priced one online (shown below) - kind of what I would be looking for when the time comes - but, I'm already doing TMx2, CCCx2, and Carbonite online on her current computer, so pretty much ready to go! ;D Dave
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[chscag]

I will probably go with the 27" model vs the 21.5" but will order it with at least a 512 GB Flash Storage drive. My current late 2013 27" iMac will be handed down to my daughter. My Apple Care doesn't expire on this machine until November 2016.

 

[chas_m]

Will TRIM put data recovery companies out of business? Perhaps -- or they will move laterally into become "data loss prevention specialists" (ie cloud backup).

With SSDs, the need for backups is more important than ever: while SSDs will *probably* last you the full normal life of the machine (and, depending on how lightly or heavily you use them, beyond), when they decide to die for whatever reason, they just GO. Blink and its all over. No warning. No time to save files. Just done.

So I think having at least one backup (and preferably a Time Machine backup, a clone backup, and an offsite/cloud backup of the really irreplaceable stuff) becomes even more vital now than it did with the spinning disks!

 

[RadDave]

I will probably go with the 27" model vs the 21.5" but will order it with at least a 512 GB Flash Storage drive. My current late 2013 27" iMac will be handed down to my daughter. My Apple Care doesn't expire on this machine until November 2016.

Will TRIM put data recovery companies out of business? Perhaps -- or they will move laterally into become "data loss prevention specialists" (ie cloud backup).

With SSDs, the need for backups is more important than ever: while SSDs will *probably* last you the full normal life of the machine (and, depending on how lightly or heavily you use them, beyond), when they decide to die for whatever reason, they just GO. Blink and its all over. No warning. No time to save files. Just done.

So I think having at least one backup (and preferably a Time Machine backup, a clone backup, and an offsite/cloud backup of the really irreplaceable stuff) becomes even more vital now than it did with the spinning disks!

Thanks Guys for your additional comments - as to screen size, wife prefers the 21.5" (put in 16 GB RAM when I bought it early 2013), and will be interested to see what happens to backup practices as these SSDs become more dominant - only a minority of computer owners backup their machines on a routine basis, e.g. the chart below (Source) suggests that only 1 in 6 people do backups on a weekly or daily rate; I'm sure there are other stats our there.

But, I do have a question concerning computer replacement - when to do and for what reasons? At home, we were on PCs for decades and I use to replace our computers roughly everyday 4-5 years (often related to a major Windows upgrade) - now, we own our first iMac & MBPro - both will be 3 y/o in spring 2016 and AppleCare expires. I'm sure that the next few OS X upgrades (i.e. those w/ name changes) at least will likely work on these machines - so I'm having a 'deja vu' feeling that 4-5 years would still be a reasonable replacement time if the computers are still functioning well and doing what we need? - thanks for any comments - I'm sure others in my situation probably have similar thoughts. Dave
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