External HD keeps disconnecting

[rbpeirce]

I have two external Seagate drives I use for Time Machine backups. One occasionally disconnects on its own. [The other sometimes does as well, but not very often.] Re-plugging it has always helped but I'm wondering if something in the drive may be failing. They're cheap enough I could replace it but I don't want to if there is another problem.

I've connected directly to my MBP using a Sahel USBC to USB3 adapter as well as going thru a Sabrent hub. I've used both for ages without problems.

 

[ferrarr]

Tell us about the device the external hd's are connected to? The more information you can provide, the better results you will recieve.

 

[DEyncourt]

I am assuming that your external drives are each in separate drive enclosures with each enclosure connected to your hub.

Check the cable ends and each of the ports of the hub and the external drives AND between the hub and your MBP. Sometimes an accumulation of dust inside a port can prevent it from working well.

If all is well, then try to isolate the problem. My apologies since this may belaborious considering you have intermittent problems. Let me try simple diagrams, so your starting layout is:
P1c1-----D1
P2c2-----D2
so Port1 is connected by cable1 to Drive1, etc.
You might try:
1--swapping the cables going from your hub to each external drive. so:
P1c1-\ /-D1
X
P2c2--/ \-D2
Note where the disconnection problem happens, then
2--swapping the ports that each cable uses in the hub, so:
P1c2-----D1
P2c1-----D2
so essentially cable1 has been swapped with cable2.

A--if the disconnection problem stays with your first drive despite this swapping, then likely the problem is with your first drive or its enclosure. Drive enclosures are cheap enough to try swapping your first drive's enclosure. If the first drive STILL is having problems, then remember to thoroughly erase your drive before sending it to an electronic wastes dump.
B--if the disconnection problem swapped after step 1 (so your Drive2 starts to disconnect) and again swapped in step 2 (so Drive1 is again disconnecting), then the problem may be in the first port in your hub. If your hub has more than 2 ports, try using a third port and stop using the first port; if your hub only has 2 ports, try a new hub.
C--if the disconnection problem swapped after step 1 (so your Drive2 starts to disconnect) but did not change after step 2, then the problem may be with cable1. Try changing that cable with a new/different one.
D--if the disconnection problem stays with Drive1 after step 1 but switches to Drive2 after step 2, then there may be a problem with your hub. Perhaps it is limited by the electrical load it can handle, so that your first drive had most (but not all) of your disconnects may have been a coincidence. Try a new hub but pay attention to its electrical load.

 

[Jimmysb]

I used a Seagate drive to back up my Windows machine, and when connected to a none powered USB3 it always failed, but worked on a powered USB3, so it could be the current draw is too great.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

My experience is that cheap Seagate-branded and Western Digital-branded *external* (I'm not talking about internal drive mechanisms) rotating disk hard drives, tend to be terrible POS's. No cooling, either no power supply or an inadequate power supply.

My contacts in the hard drive recovery industry tell me that they see a ton of these that have failed. Apparently they are made as cheaply as possible and with virtually no quality control.

If you have one, you especially don't want to attach it to a USB hub, you want to attach it directly to your Mac. Attaching one to a laptop may be just as bad as attaching it to a hub, depending on the year and model of your laptop.

 

[rbpeirce]

I've tried swapping cables and connection points. One or the other drive just drops out from time-to-time. The drives are partitioned and individual partitions sometimes drop out as well. It is all pretty random.

As for the devices, in addition to the following

I've connected directly to my MBP using a Sahel USBC to USB3 adapter as well as going thru a Sabrent hub. I've used both for ages without problems.

I can add it is a 14" M1 MBP. I suppose it is possible Apple and Intel silicon behave differently. Actually, I have similar drives connected to an Intel Mac Mini and to an Intel PC and they never drop out, so maybe it is the M1!

 

[MacInWin]

maybe it is the M1!

I have an M1 MBP, with eleven drives currently attached. The Mac is attached by TB4 cable to the OWC dock, which is, in turn, connected to a 7-port USB-A hub that has four of them connected, then to a J5 5-port hub that hosts another three. Two other drives are USB-c directly attached to the OWC dock. None of them drops out. So, it's not the M1. But what I have noted in the past that the interfaces in various drives seem to have some sort of sleep function built in to the interface, which can cause the drive to drop out if it goes to sleep and then doesn't wake up fast enough for the OS. Those drives get retired to offline storage. Three of the eleven drives are individually externally powered, the rest are powered through the hubs, which have external power supplies. I choose my hubs very carefully for power capacity because I don't want to have drives lacking electricity. I also don't max out my hubs, as described, for the same reason.

So, maybe a change in configuration would help? Particularly if the phenomenon moves from drive to drive. Your report that a partition can drop offline is very, very strange. Theoretically, if a partition drops out, so should all other partitions on that same hardware. Can you give us more detail on that area?

As an aside, the reason I have so many drives and not just a couple of huge ones partitioned down is that partitioning can give the illusion of having some sort of security. But if the hardware goes south, ALL of the partitions are lost. So, instead of getting some 8-10-12TB drive or bigger, I have lots of 1-2TB drives. Cheaper individually and if one fails, all I lose is that one. For really critical stuff I have a RAID array as well (included in the 11 drives), because you just can't beat RAID for drive stability.

 

[rbpeirce]

Theoretically, if a partition drops out, so should all other partitions on that same hardware. Can you give us more detail on that area?

As an aside, the reason I have so many drives and not just a couple of huge ones partitioned down is that partitioning can give the illusion of having some sort of security.

I have 4TB drives and I put a 1TB partition on each for Time Machine because it will grow to the space allowed. I have containers on the other partitions and I use SD! to back them up on a regular basis. I would need multiple simultaneous failures to actually lose any data.

What I have found is every once-in-a-while either the Time Machine or the other partition will just disconnect. I use Disk Utility to remount the partition. I have no idea why or how this happens. I don't know what else I can tell you.

 

[MacInWin]

I have 4TB drives and I put a 1TB partition on each for Time Machine because it will grow to the space allowed. I have containers on the other partitions and I use SD! to back them up on a regular basis. I would need multiple simultaneous failures to actually lose any data.

What I have found is every once-in-a-while either the Time Machine or the other partition will just disconnect. I use Disk Utility to remount the partition. I have no idea why or how this happens. I don't know what else I can tell you.

Do you mean it is formatted AFPS and you have a Container with four Volumes? That is not "partitioning" and is entirely different. And it's important to know which it is. Or do you really have four true partitions? And if the latter, what format are the various partitions? Maybe it would help if you took a screen shot of Disk Utility with View selected for "Show All Devices" so we can see what you really have.

I'm not being pedantic, words are important, especially tech terms.

 

[rbpeirce]

Each 4TB drive is formatted APFS and has two actual partitions. One on each drive is 1Tb for Time Machine backups. The other has containers/volumes. One has four and the other two. I know the difference.

 

[MacInWin]

OK, since you know the difference, I'll drop out and let someone else help. Good luck with whatever it is you have there.

 

[pm-r]

I'm not being pedantic, words are important, especially tech terms.

I would be inclined to suggest that computer related words and jargon these days are not only important but critical for proper communication and understanding. Slang computer vocabulary not included...



- Patrick
=======

 

[IWT]

Each 4TB drive is formatted APFS and has two actual partitions. One on each drive is 1Tb for Time Machine backups. The other has containers/volumes. One has four and the other two. I know the difference.

Would you mind awfully taking a screenshot of what you see when you open Disk Utility and have "Show all Devices" selected?

This would make life much easier for us here when trying to guess your layout.

Ian

 

[rbpeirce]

Would you mind awfully taking a screenshot of what you see when you open Disk Utility and have "Show all Devices" selected?

 

[Lifeisabeach]

A few weeks ago, I was reading that there is a problem with some hard drives disconnecting on macOS Ventura. I think the problem was that Ventura is looking for a feature in the drive firmware to "keep alive" and will eject the drive if it doesn't see it after a period. The solution I've seen as a stop gap is to use an app that forces the drive to stay connected by periodically writing a tiny file to the drive. Amphetamine implemented a feature called "Drive Alive" to do just this, but there are other apps that do the same if you want a freebie. "Keep Drive Spinning" is one that has been around for a long time.

 

[MacInWin]

A few weeks ago, I was reading that there is a problem with some hard drives disconnecting on macOS Ventura. I think the problem was that Ventura is looking for a feature in the drive firmware to "keep alive" and will eject the drive if it doesn't see it after a period. The solution I've seen as a stop gap is to use an app that forces the drive to stay connected by periodically writing a tiny file to the drive. Amphetamine implemented a feature called "Drive Alive" to do just this, but there are other apps that do the same if you want a freebie. "Keep Drive Spinning" is one that has been around for a long time.

Not unique to Ventura. Been that way for a while.

 

[rbpeirce]

looking for a feature in the drive firmware to "keep alive" and will eject the drive if it doesn't see it after a period.

I don't think that is the issue here. A disk can stay mounted all day but sometimes randomly drops out. There may be no solution to this other than to just remount it.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

I don't think that is the issue here. A disk can stay mounted all day but sometimes randomly drops out. There may be no solution to this other than to just remount it.

It may be worth trying one of those apps for laughs just to see if it helps. I've long used another app, Mountain, to prevent my external drive from being accidentally ejected. And I've never had that happen since I started using it. I'm not sure if it works in the same way as the others I mentioned... it loads up a helper file and will block me from manually ejecting it, whereas the other solutions won't block you in this regard. I actually ran into these other apps while looking for a replacement for Mountain since it hasn't been updated in a long time, but I can't find anything that does what it does exactly.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

Not unique to Ventura. Been that way for a while.

Yeah, it could be that it's just a trendy thing to say from the makers of various utilities who make a lot of junk blog articles that really just tout their products. In fact, when I googled it, the first hits were all from these guys. I've been using Mountain to prevent my external HDD from being ejected for a long time, but it was mainly to stop me or other apps from doing it. I can't recall if it ejected automatically on system sleep or not though, or randomly, prior to me using Mountain.

I do recall reading about one long-time app like the others mentioned, and they discontinued development specifically because Amphetamine now integrates the same feature. I could have sworn it came about because of Ventura.

 

[MacInWin]

I could have sworn it came about because of Ventura.

Nope, I need Amphetamine back in HS, as I recall, maybe even earlier. I've had it for years.