iCloud: Once You're in, You're Never Getting Out

[Marrk]

A comment in another thread caused me to rethink my commitment to iCloud, and I thought I would sign out of it. When I attempted the sign out, I got this message: "If you don't keep copy, your data will be removed from this Mac but will still be available on other devices using iCloud." Does this mean what I think not means? ("Stay in iCloud or we're wiping your data from your device. We will still have it in iCloud, but you won't have it.")

 

[tr3ndz]

Your other devices, MBP, iPhone, etc. can still use the iCloud data but your iMac won't as you signed out. Signing back in on the iMac will revert that.

 

[MacInWin]

@Marrk, it depends on what you have previously put in iCloud what that exactly means. If you shared Desktop and Documents and don't copy what is shown there to some other place that is NOT on the desktop and is NOT in Documents, then when you sign out of iCloud the system is disconnect you from the Desktop and Document files that are in the cloud and then create new, empty Desktop and Document folder for you. If you do copy them off to a safe location, that's ok, because you can then copy the items back to these new, empty folders and get your system back to what it was. If you didn't turn that on in the first place, then what will happen is that your Mac will now no longer sync with any other devices that share data in the cloud, so contacts, calendars, mail, keychain, etc, will not match on your iDevices and the Mac. Similarly, Messages on the Mac will no longer work because it requires iCloud.

 

[pm-r]

A comment in another thread caused me to rethink my commitment to iCloud, and I thought I would sign out of it.

I trust you are not relying just on iCloud for a proper true backup... but are using something like Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper to create a backup clone!!!!


- Patrick
=======

 

[chscag]

I trust you are not relying just on iCloud for a proper true backup... but are using something like Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper to create a backup clone!!!!

There does seem to be some confusion over this. iCloud is not a backup service (for your Mac) and never has been deemed one by Apple. People think of iCloud as a backup service because they can store photos, music, and as pointed out in another thread, desktop documents.

But iCloud can not restore your Mac if the drive crashes or if you have other problems.

However, iCloud can backup your iPhone and iPad and restore them. Maybe that's where folks get the backup idea from?

 

[Marrk]

I trust you are not relying just on iCloud for a proper true backup... but are using something like Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper to create a backup clone!!!!


- Patrick
=======

I back up with TimeMachine on a hard drive. First thing every morning.

 

[Marrk]

The error message that I quoted above seems to be saying, "When you signed in to iCloud, we copied all the data that you check-marked (Contacts, Safari, Mail, etc.). If you sign out of iCloud, we're keeping that data and, by the way, we are wiping that data off of your laptop." The only way for me to retain my data is by "keep[ing] a copy" of what they have copied.

Is this not correct? What have I misunderstood here?

 

[pm-r]

Is this not correct? What have I misunderstood here?

I have no idea, and don't really use iCloud at all, and Apple has a rather strange way of using the English language, at least in a way that is easily and clearly understood. At least from what I read.

If any of your data is valuable, make sure you have your own proper working back up. And that means you having full control and access over it.


- Patrick
=======

 

[chscag]

Is this not correct? What have I misunderstood here?

It's not correct. Refer back to what Jake replied to you in #3.

 

[Marrk]

It's not correct. Refer back to what Jake replied to you in #3.

Jake is saying what I am saying. For example, if I sign out of iCloud, I will lose all of my Safari passwords.

Does signing out of iCloud "remove" my iCloud account? If so, what does "remove" mean exactly?

 

[Rod]

My concept of iCloud is that it is essentially a syncing service. As such the default 5GB of free storage provided with a new account is adequate for purpose.
Since Apple started offering the option to store Documents and Desktop Folders on iCloud this, has for those that took that option, has become way too little. Never mind backing up iPhones which now have up to 265GB of storage plus Photo Libraries and iCloud Drive (which is remote storage of application data for selected apps).
Apple has encouraged people to store data on iCloud for some years now. The base level MacBook Air 256GB would be unworkable without remote or personal (External HD) data storage.
So iCloud just syncs data across devices and performs backups of portable iDevices (iPhones, iPads).
It means when you create a reminder, a calendar event, add a contact etc. they appear on all of your devices.
If your Desktop and Documents folders are stored on iCloud and you sever your connection to iCloud they will not be accessible on your computer. Apple have not wiped the data from your device, it was never there.
Even keeping a clone of your device does not copy all your data currently stored exclusively on iCloud Drive, just the settings and preferences that allow you to access it from iCloud.

 

[Rod]

Maybe I should clarify what iCloud Drive actually is. It is the same as Google Drive and Microsoft's OneDrive, remote online storage. iCloud drive is stored on iCloud but unlike the rest of iCloud it is not just for syncing but actual off site storage. Without an internet connection you cannot access it but you can copy the data on it to your device at the sacrifice of the storage space it will use, which is why Apple promotes it's use for Desktop and documents Folders, it saves space.
Having said all the above you don't need to use it, I don't, but you will need adequate storage on your device.

 

[IWT]

@Marrk

I don't mean to interfere especially as the last few posts have been so instructive; but here's my take on the situation:

iCloud’s primary function is to sync data between Devices - ie -iPhones, iPads, iPod Touches and Macs, both portable & Desktop.

This also applies to Desktop & Documents; only it uses iCloud Drive for this purpose.

iCloud Drive is where you can store your Desktop and Documents folder and access them on all your devices. That means you can start a document on your Desktop, then work on it later from your iPhone, iPad or iPod touch and on iCloud.com. Everything automatically stays up to date everywhere.

For a detailed, but easily understood, explanation of how you can add your Desktop & Documents files to iCloud Drive; how you can optimise Mac storage to free up space on your Mac; and what exactly happens if you turn off iCloud Drive or sign out of iCloud see here:

Add your Desktop and Documents files to iCloud Drive – Apple Support (UK)

Find out how to share your files from your Mac Desktop and Documents folders to all of your devices with iCloud Drive.

support.apple.com

I strongly advise you to read this article.

Finally, it is perfectly true that iDevices can be backed up to iCloud and subsequently be restored from same. That is quite different from the primary function of syncing between devices as mentioned above.

EDIT: PS Since typing this, I see that there have been further postings, but I guess it does no harm to receive the same info in a different format?

 

[Rod]

Really, in some ways you're correct, "Once you're in you're never getting out." This is the same for every internet connected device we own and every operating system we use. If you have a Windows device you get OneDrive and a Microsoft email address as soon as you register your device which of course also means creating an account as part of the process.
Over the years I have endeavoured to keep all of my data "in house." I do not use iCloud Drive or any other online "Drive" services for anything other than temporary storage but the syncing services of iCloud are invaluable.
My advice is to get all of your data back on your device and keep it there. But there is a caveat. You then become responsible for ensuring viable backup of all that data and that means backups of your backups. Something a lot of people are unwilling to do.

 

[MacInWin]

Actually, the expression of "once you're in you're never getting out," is wrong in this case. If @Marrk made the decision to store his Desktop and Documents folders in iCloud (NOTE: It's HIS decision to do that in the preference settings.) and now wants to back out, he can do that, but unless he takes certain steps (copying the data that looks like it's on the Desktop and in his Documents folder, when he backs out, it won't be there. So to make sure he has his stuff when he backs out, he just needs to make a copy, as I said, somewhere that is NOT on the Desktop or in his Documents folder. That can be on an external drive, or even on the internal as long as it's NOT in Desktop or Documents as they are now. In that copy process all of the documents in the cloud will be downloaded and saved wherever he decides. Then when he logs out, as I said, new, empty, Desktop and Documents folders will be created in his home directory. He can then copy the stuff back to these new folder from where he put them and all is well. As for what happens to the versions in the iCloud, it depends on whether or not his iDevices still have access to iCloud. If he keeps his iDevices connected to iCloud, the files will stay there to be available for them. If he logs them out of iCloud as well, what happens is a bit cloudy. Apple might keep them for a while, just in case he plans to return, but I suspect that after some time they will delete the files from their systems to make room for another customer. But for @Marrk, he's "out" once he logs all of his iDevices and Macs out of the AppleID account. It's a rather drastic step as now one of the major advantages of having Apple devices is disabled. I count on my calendar being synced via iCloud, as well as the photos I take, messages in both Mail and Messages, and my keychain. Having all that synced automatically means that with any of the devices that share the account (Mac, iPad, iPhone,  Watch) I can get to my data from just about anywhere is very useful. Now I don't let Apple decide what to take off my Mac, so I don't have the Desktop and Documents stored in the iCloud, but I do have documents I need to share saved there as well as on my Mac. Apple's approach gives lots of options, none of which are "you're never getting out."

 

[Marrk]

Contacts
Calendars
Reminders
Safari
Notes
Keychain
Find My Mac

^^All of the above are selected in my iCloud. They may be the default settings. Not selected are iCloud Drive, Photos, Mail, and Siri. I do not see Documents or Desktop, so I'm not sure that I completely understand your post.

 

[MacInWin]

If you are running Catalina, open System Preferences and click on "Apple ID" beside your account name. If you aren't running Catalina, open System Preferences and select iCloud. The resulting window will show options for what is stored in the iCloud space. Beside the iCloud Drive icon is a box labelled "Options" and if you click there you get a list of what can be stored on iCloud. One of those items is "Desktop & Documents Folders." If that is checked, what you see on the Desktop and in your Documents folder of your Home folder are actually in iCloud. Don't uncheck it unless you have copied the two folder to someplace that is NOT on the Desktop or in your Documents folder. If you click on the "Done" button it returns to the iCloud setup. Below the window is a checkbox "Optimize Mac Storage" that if selected allows the system to move things to iCloud to make space on your internal drive for you. You don't want to check that box because if you want something that has been moved to iCloud and are not connected to the iCloud, you can't get it.

If iCloud Drive is not selected, then your documents are not stored in iCloud unless you specifically did so inside the app as you created the document.

 

[Marrk]

^^Got it.

I'm on High Sierra. I do not have an Options button next to iCloud Drive, which is not selected. (I do have an Options button next to Photos, which is also not selected.) Below the window, I have a Manage button. I clicked on it, and nothing in there is selected (three choices: Apple Books, Backups and Siri). I have 5gb of a total of 5gb storage space available.

 

[MacInWin]

Strange, I just booted up on an old MBP with HS and under iCloud there is a button beside iCloud Drive labelled "Options" and under that button are the menu items I gave. The OS version is 10.13.6. Are you perhaps not on that version? I can't think of why the Options would not be there.

 

[Marrk]

Jake, I'm on OS 10.13.6.