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I am relatively new to using iCloud, so please bear with me as I try to describe my query. When I open the iCloud summary box it shows I have 4.6GB available of 50 GB storage, but in Finder it states I need to upgrade as insufficient space remains - this doesn't seem correct.
(I also note in "About this Mac" it shows I have 835.38 GB available of 1TB)
In the iCloud summary box it states "The full contents of iCloud Drive will be stored on this Mac if you have enough space, older documents will be stored in iCloud when space is needed." - This is confusing to me since I assume iCloud is remote storage and is what I'm paying for? For example if someone stole my Mac how could I recover my files if in iCloud they are not being stored there?
 

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Thank you for your post.

What is iCloud? That's a good start. This Apple Link starts to explain:


I think you are possibly confusing, or are being confused, by the various terminologies.

1. "About this Mac" merely tells you how much available space there is on your Mac's Drive.

2. As you will have read from the above Link, iCloud can be divided into differing functions. For example iCloud Drive stores Files and the like;

whereas another part of iCloud stores data such as Photos, Videos, Music, and allows you to access them across all your Devices (Mac, iPhone, iPad etc). It also allows to to share certain data such as photos, music with friends and family.

iCloud storage up to 5GB is free. Above that you have to pay for extra storage eg 200GB for £2.99/month and upwards from there. You have 4.6Gb of that still available, you tell us.

I need a little more detail about your comment that Finder tells you "need to Upgrade". I think that is a completely different matter. The word "Upgrade" itself implies something quite different; or at least that seems so to me unless you expand on that.

When you've read the Link and also the above, please come back with the exact things that still confuse you. You are not alone here as many of us have struggled to understand the differing components in the past. So don't despair.

Ian
 

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Okay, first let's seperate iCloud and iCloud Drive, a common cause of confusion.
iCloud is a means of syncing Apple app data from one Apple device to another.
It is comprised of all those Apple (and some other) apps that you want to update (sync) to all your devices so that when you edit one on one device, like adding a Contact or a Calendar event on your iPhone it updates your Mac/ iPad ect.
Many of these apps are ON by default unless you choose to turn them off like
Passwords, Mail, Messages, Reminders, Notes and iCloud Drive.

So, iCloud Drive is a personal storage space for any files you choose to backup and/or sync across your devices which resides within iCloud. These files can be found on portable devices in the generically named "Files" app.
Google has this feature too called Google Drive as does Microsoft called OneDrive.

This is the confusing bit, iCloud as previously stated is a "means of syncing Apple app data from one Apple device to another" to do this it has to have a copy of that data but it is not actually remote "backup storage" while iCloud Drive is. That's because the data stored is primarily for syncing Apple apps while iCloud Drive can contain files from any source, eg MS Word docs, photos from the internet, games and so on.

Having said that, to answer your question, "if someone stole my Mac how could I recover my files if in iCloud they are not being stored there?" All your synced data (Passwords, Contacts, Calendar, Mail, Messages, Reminders, Notes and iCloud Drive) in iCloud will be synced to your new replacement Mac the minute you sign in to your iCloud account. Just as it would on a new iPhone/iPad.
 
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There is another compliction to this, as iCloud is also where the Desktop and your User acount Documents folder are kept, if that is selected in the Settings for the Mac. What version of macOS is on your iMac? With that information we can tell you where to check the settings for that option. There are implications from turning the options on and off, so don't make any changes until you get that info to us and hear back on what to do.
 

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“if that is selected in the Settings for the Mac” being the key words there.

dannyboy22, you have plenty of storage on your Mac's internal drive so you certainly don't need/want to turn that on.
 

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When I open the iCloud summary box it shows I have 4.6GB available of 50 GB storage
That is not impossible especially if you have had Macs for a while but if you are a new user and considering you've only used 165GB of storage out of 1000GB on your Mac I can only assume you have a lot of data in iCloud Drive and or you are using iCloud Photo Library.

In System Settings > Your Name (at the top) > Under Saved to iCloud there is a breakdown of storage, see below;

Screenshot 2025-01-12 at 13.52.47.png

As you can see I have 134GB in iCloud Drive but if I "Get Info" on iCloud Drive in the Finder Sidebar it shows it's only 949MB on my MacBook Pro because the rest is in iCloud Drive in iCloud. See below:

Screenshot 2025-01-12 at 14.02.19.png

The items that have the little Cloud icon with the down arrow at the right hand end are not on my MBP but can be downloaded when and if I want them.
 
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Thank you for your post.

What is iCloud? That's a good start. This Apple Link starts to explain:


I think you are possibly confusing, or are being confused, by the various terminologies.

1. "About this Mac" merely tells you how much available space there is on your Mac's Drive.

2. As you will have read from the above Link, iCloud can be divided into differing functions. For example iCloud Drive stores Files and the like;

whereas another part of iCloud stores data such as Photos, Videos, Music, and allows you to access them across all your Devices (Mac, iPhone, iPad etc). It also allows to to share certain data such as photos, music with friends and family.

iCloud storage up to 5GB is free. Above that you have to pay for extra storage eg 200GB for £2.99/month and upwards from there. You have 4.6Gb of that still available, you tell us.

I need a little more detail about your comment that Finder tells you "need to Upgrade". I think that is a completely different matter. The word "Upgrade" itself implies something quite different; or at least that seems so to me unless you expand on that.

When you've read the Link and also the above, please come back with the exact things that still confuse you. You are not alone here as many of us have struggled to understand the differing components in the past. So don't despair.

Ian
Thanks Ian for your prompt reply and the others that have followed - all are very useful and good to know everyone is happy to share their time, knowledge and experience.
As you note I have 50GB iCloud storage and initially this showed with 4.6GB being available, in Finder it showed on some document files no space available (or words to that effect) and on the top section on the screen it showed a tab with the option of the Upgrade to the next level. I did intend to go to the 200GB level but on each occasion I received a screen showing "Contacting card issuer for authentication"but I found the spinning wheel just kept on spinning and the transaction therefore was not completed. I put this down to the fact that my desktop is now old with many issues and in serious need of replacement, but I've been nursing it along as I search for the right model to replace it with.
Because I could not carry out upgrading the iCloud to the next level I decided to write some folders in Documents to a DVD to create a little more space in the meantime and then delete the folders from the Mac, this has worked insofar as the "no space available" texts have gone along with the Upgrade iCloud tab, but the I note on the storage screen it now shows my 4.6GB has reduced to 2.19GB whereas I assumed this would have increased?
Your link provided looks very useful so that will be my bedtime reading tonight.
Thank you for the encouragement and I'll try to get to grips with it over the next few days.
ken
 
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Okay, first let's seperate iCloud and iCloud Drive, a common cause of confusion.
iCloud is a means of syncing Apple app data from one Apple device to another.
It is comprised of all those Apple (and some other) apps that you want to update (sync) to all your devices so that when you edit one on one device, like adding a Contact or a Calendar event on your iPhone it updates your Mac/ iPad ect.
Many of these apps are ON by default unless you choose to turn them off like
Passwords, Mail, Messages, Reminders, Notes and iCloud Drive.

So, iCloud Drive is a personal storage space for any files you choose to backup and/or sync across your devices which resides within iCloud. These files can be found on portable devices in the generically named "Files" app.
Google has this feature too called Google Drive as does Microsoft called OneDrive.

This is the confusing bit, iCloud as previously stated is a "means of syncing Apple app data from one Apple device to another" to do this it has to have a copy of that data but it is not actually remote "backup storage" while iCloud Drive is. That's because the data stored is primarily for syncing Apple apps while iCloud Drive can contain files from any source, eg MS Word docs, photos from the internet, games and so on.

Having said that, to answer your question, "if someone stole my Mac how could I recover my files if in iCloud they are not being stored there?" All your synced data (Passwords, Contacts, Calendar, Mail, Messages, Reminders, Notes and iCloud Drive) in iCloud will be synced to your new replacement Mac the minute you sign in to your iCloud account. Just as it would on a new iPhone/iPad.
Thanks Rod,
I am a dinosaur in so far as I have my Mac desktop but other Apple items, not even a smart phone so synching between devices has not been necessary. My wife recently acquired a MacBook and I have tried sharing photo from my device to hers which was successful but have not advanced with any further trials yet.
In relation to your explanation of the difference between iCloud and iDrive that was interesting to note since I hadn't appreciated this and assumed all items selected were fully backed up. I do need to read up more from the information you have provided for this along with the link document forwarded by Ian.
Hopefully in the next few days I will have a clearer understanding of this all works.
 
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There is another compliction to this, as iCloud is also where the Desktop and your User acount Documents folder are kept, if that is selected in the Settings for the Mac. What version of macOS is on your iMac? With that information we can tell you where to check the settings for that option. There are implications from turning the options on and off, so don't make any changes until you get that info to us and hear back on what to do.
Hi, thanks for the reply.
My version of the OS is Catalina 10.15.7
 
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That is not impossible especially if you have had Macs for a while but if you are a new user and considering you've only used 165GB of storage out of 1000GB on your Mac I can only assume you have a lot of data in iCloud Drive and or you are using iCloud Photo Library.

In System Settings > Your Name (at the top) > Under Saved to iCloud there is a breakdown of storage, see below;

View attachment 39965

As you can see I have 134GB in iCloud Drive but if I "Get Info" on iCloud Drive in the Finder Sidebar it shows it's only 949MB on my MacBook Pro because the rest is in iCloud Drive in iCloud. See below:

View attachment 39966

The items that have the little Cloud icon with the down arrow at the right hand end are not on my MBP but can be downloaded when and if I want them.
Hi Rod,
I cannot locate System Settings in my OS but have System Preferences - are they the same? - (see attached pic)
If I click on Documents this shows 25.49GB and Photos & Videos show 22.32GB
Regards,
Ken
 

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Hi, thanks for the reply.
My version of the OS is Catalina 10.15.7
Ok, that's pretty old, and many things have changed since it was released. One you have already noticed is that what is now System Settings was, back then, System Preferences. They are mostly the same function but very different in presentation. Apple used to have a User Guide for it on the website apple.com, but I cannot find it to point to it for you. Unfortunately, I think the way iCloud and iCloud Drive works changed somewhere between Catalina and now, so helping you with it is going to be a bit of a challenge. But we'll try.

First (workiing from memory here), try clicking on the Options beside iCloud Drive and see if you have set it to store Documents and Desktop in the cloud. Don't change the setting, just let us know if it is checked.
 
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I found this the other day when I was looking for their Mac user guides;

Bookmarking that, Bob. Nice find. It used to be one could search at apple for "macOS User Guide" and get them all by just selecting the version you wanted, but that went away.
 
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Ok, that's pretty old, and many things have changed since it was released. One you have already noticed is that what is now System Settings was, back then, System Preferences. They are mostly the same function but very different in presentation. Apple used to have a User Guide for it on the website apple.com, but I cannot find it to point to it for you. Unfortunately, I think the way iCloud and iCloud Drive works changed somewhere between Catalina and now, so helping you with it is going to be a bit of a challenge. But we'll try.

First (workiing from memory here), try clicking on the Options beside iCloud Drive and see if you have set it to store Documents and Desktop in the cloud. Don't change the setting, just let us know if it is checked.
Ok, that's pretty old, and many things have changed since it was released. One you have already noticed is that what is now System Settings was, back then, System Preferences. They are mostly the same function but very different in presentation. Apple used to have a User Guide for it on the website apple.com, but I cannot find it to point to it for you. Unfortunately, I think the way iCloud and iCloud Drive works changed somewhere between Catalina and now, so helping you with it is going to be a bit of a challenge. But we'll try.

First (workiing from memory here), try clicking on the Options beside iCloud Drive and see if you have set it to store Documents and Desktop in the cloud. Don't change the setting, just let us know if it is checked.
 
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Clicking the Options in the iCloud Drive it shows as the attached pic.
Ken
 

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Bookmarking that, Bob. Nice find. It used to be one could search at apple for "macOS User Guide" and get them all by just selecting the version you wanted, but that went away.
Thanks I've just taken a quick look at the link and identified my Mac, so will a close look at that tomorrow too.
Ken
 
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OK, that helps. You are storing Desktop and Documents in the cloud, which means that they are not normally on your local drive except as "dataless" files that tells the operating system that they are in the cloud. Only when you open the files do they get downloaded to the local drive and used. So, in your original post you said:
I am relatively new to using iCloud, so please bear with me as I try to describe my query. When I open the iCloud summary box it shows I have 4.6GB available of 50 GB storage, but in Finder it states I need to upgrade as insufficient space remains - this doesn't seem correct.
(I also note in "About this Mac" it shows I have 835.38 GB available of 1TB)
In the iCloud summary box it states "The full contents of iCloud Drive will be stored on this Mac if you have enough space, older documents will be stored in iCloud when space is needed." - This is confusing to me since I assume iCloud is remote storage and is what I'm paying for? For example if someone stole my Mac how could I recover my files if in iCloud they are not being stored there?
What is happening is that all of that free space on your local drive that shows in "About This Mac" is there, but Finder knows that anything showing on your "Desktop" or in your "Documents" folder is not necesssarily there, but in the cloud. And in the cloud you onley have 4.6 GB free space remaining, which is what triggers the warning from Finder. The message from the iCloud that you posted about full contents being stored on the Mac is not necessarily true. If you look at the iCloud Drive with Finder you should see a little cloud icon beside any file that is NOT locally stored to indicate that it's been moved to the cloud. When you click on the file to open it, it's downloaded to the local drive, held there as you use it and when it's been idle for a while it will be restored to the cloud and replaced with a dataless file with the cloud icon again.

The other confusion is about iCloud and iCloud Drive, which are two separate things with unfortunately close names. iCloud is a storage place online where you can store almost anything and which is mostly used to sync things like Photos, email, Contacts, Messages, etc. I.e., the rest of the things in the image in post #16 that are checked. iCloud Drive is a specific function where you can put things that you want to be stored in the cloud and accessible as if they were on your local machine, with the proviso that they will be downloaded as described above. Two different, but somewhat related, things. Things shared in iCloud are available to all devices/computers logged into the same AppleID accunt, but things in iCloud Drive may or may not be, depending on the other device and whether or not iCloud Drive is on, or even available, to that other system. Yes, it's confusing and I'm trying to keep it simple.

Add in that you have a check box in the image in post #16 beside "Desktop & Documents Folders" and in image beside "Optimize Mac Storage" means that you have authorized the system to move any and all files from the Desktop and Documents folders (incuding any subfolders in either of those locations) of the local drive to the cloud, with no further notifications to you at all. And that authorization and action is why FInder says you don't have sufficient space. It's ignoring all of that lovely space on the internal drive and looking at the very full iCloud storage.

How to fix? Well, it's not hard, but a bit compex and time consuming, depending on your internet speeds. Here is an exerpt from this Apple document:


Turn off Desktop and Documents​

  1. From your Mac, choose Apple menu  > System Settings.
  2. Click Apple Account. In macOS Sonoma or earlier, click Apple ID.
  3. Click iCloud.
  4. Under Saved to iCloud, click Drive. In macOS Sonoma or earlier, under Apps Using iCloud, click iCloud Drive.
  5. Turn off Desktop & Documents Folders.
  6. Click Done.

What happens when you turn off Desktop and Documents​

When you turn off Desktop & Documents Folders, your files stay in iCloud Drive and a new Desktop and Documents folder is created on your Mac in the home folder. You can move files from iCloud Drive to your Mac as you need them, or select all of your files and drag them to the place you want to keep them.

What happens when you turn off iCloud Drive or sign out of iCloud​

If you turn off iCloud Drive or sign out of iCloud, a new Desktop and Documents folder is created in your home folder. You also have the option to keep a local copy of your files that are in iCloud Drive. If you keep a local copy of your files in iCloud Drive, they're copied to a folder called iCloud Drive (Archive) in your home folder. You can move any files that were in your iCloud Desktop and Documents to your new local Desktop and Documents.
Those instructions are for more modern versions of macOS, but the same things apply to your system. Go to your Apple ID, navigate to where you were when you took the screenshot in post #16 and uncheck the box for "Desktop and Documents Folders" and wait. Wait. It may take a while for all of the files in the cloud to be restored to your system. Note that it says that a new Desktop and Documents folder will be created and you may need to move the files that are downloaded to make them visible on the Desktop and in your Documents folder in Finder. Note also that there will be files still in the iCloud Drive folder which you may or may not want or need to move. Once you have them where they need to be, you can delete any duplicates. Note also that this action does NOT turn off iCloud drive, but it does change the way it functions. With "Optimize" and "Desktop..." off, iCloud drive becomes a way to share documents with other devices connected to your iCloud account or archive them away from your Mac in case of a disaster. It's not a backup, but might be a handy place to keep an encrypted copy of any recovery keys you might need/want if a disaster hits and you have to replace your Mac with a new one. If you turn off iCloud drive totally you can read what that will do in the article.

Philosophically, I don't use iCloud Drive at all. I want my files on MY machine, independent of the availablity of the Internet. The way you are now set up, if you don't have internet, you cannot get to the files with the cloud icon at all.

Your final sentence said:
For example if someone stole my Mac how could I recover my files if in iCloud they are not being stored there?
That is what backups are for. Make backups (probably multiple) and then store one copy off-site (relative's home, work, somewhere secure and that you can get to) as a "disaster" copy. You could even put that disaster copy in the cloud, if it works, by paying for sufficient space at a provider (even Apple) and then setting up a routine to update the files there as a scheduled event. You could even use iCloud Drive for that with "Optimize" and "Desktop.." off, as that is how it works. In that case, however, you would possibly end up with multiple copies on the local drive if you keep one in "Documents" and another on "iCloud Drive." But it could work for you.

What I do is have TM make a backup to an external drive in my home office, then use a cloner (CCC in my case) to make separate clones to two other systems, one a RAID array and the other in a NAS setup in different locations within my house. I also have the super critical files on separate drives that I store in a fire-resistant, waterproof safe at the opposite end of my house from my office. Right now I don't have an external location working as I am considering how to proceed with that, but there is a copy of my CCC backup in my "go bag" that would be grabbed in the event of me needing to evacuate my home for any reason. I swap that drive out once a week with a fresh copy.

What you do is dependent on what you need and how much risk you are willing to absorb. Just have SOME strategy. Anything is better than nothing.
 
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Thanks a lot - such a comprehensive response, but since it is bedtime here I will need to review in detail tomorrow to ensure I can follow and digest all the information you have kindly set out for me.
Ken
 

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Incredible Post #18, Jake. A fabulous review of a really difficult subject.

Ian
 

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