Major Apple Mail Problem - Attachments

[mikemyers]

For maybe five years now, I've been trying to get a software issue fixed, with no luck.
I talk to Apple Tech Support, they connect to my computer, and tell me lots of ways around the problem, but nothing works.

I want to be able to send a medical image to others, using Apple Mail, sending it as a normal mail attachment, so it is received by the other person as an attachment, that they can save, and have a complete copy of my original file, with all EXIF data in place.

The problem is that when Apple Mail sees that a file is either a jpg, a png, or a pdf, the mail app embeds the image into the message, which means it is useless at the receiving end.

The ONLY way I have found to reliably do this, is if I'm sending a file "picture.jpg" as an attachment, to first rename it as something like "picture.abc".
Apple Mail sees the file is not a jpg, png, or pdf, so it sends the file as a normal attachment.
Afterwards, the recipient can save the file with the temporary name, "picture.abc" and rename it as "picture.jpg".

I am tired of Apple Tech Support people trying to help me, with no success, then getting a senior advisor involved, who also can't fix it, and then telling me to report it as a bug, which I've been doing for five years.

The proper fix would be to be able to open Apple Mail, then go to Mail Preferences, then provide a check box to send attachments as normal attachments instead of embedding into the body of the mail message. There is a selection somewhere for "Windows friendly attachments", but that doesn't solve the problem.

Because of this bug, the only satisfactory solution I could find was to purchase Microsoft Office, and use the Outlook mail program, which doesn't have this bug.


Note: The closest I've come to getting this fixed, is when I got an Apple Tech Support person on the phone with me, and he tested this himself, found the same issue, and told me he would pass this on to the Engineers.

Note2: In searching for a solution, all I found was other people with the same problem, and they wrote "Apple only cares about the consumers, not us technical people".

 

[IWT]

I want to be able to send a medical image to others, using Apple Mail, sending it as a normal mail attachment, so it is received by the other person as an attachment, that they can save, and have a complete copy of my original file, with all EXIF data in place.

The problem is that when Apple Mail sees that a file is either a jpg, a png, or a pdf, the mail app embeds the image into the message, which means it is useless at the receiving end.

There is one way you can do this which I use all the time.

Create a Folder. Call it what you will. Transfer the medical image into the Folder. Then open Mail, put in your message then Click on Attach, locate the Folder and choose it. The Folder remains as such when the recipient receives it.

No embedding. All data in place. Give it a shot.

Ian

 

[MacInWin]

I don't understand the problem. I send pictures all the time through Mail. The can be jpg, a png, or a pdf. Initially, the attachment is inline, as you say, but if you right click on it and then select "View as icon" it shows on your system as an icon rather that the embedded image. On the other end, what displays depends on THAT system, not yours. They can do whatever they want with the image, just as any other attachment. It is no different from any other attachment. But you cannot control what they decide to do, or not do, on the other end.

EDIT: I just tested this, sent three pictures from one email account to another. One a jpg, one a tiff, one pdf. All three arrived with full data as sent.

 

[MacInWin]

@mikemyers, if you want to test it, PM me your email address and I'll email you from mine, then you can try sending me an email with an image and I'll tell you what I get. Or I can email from mine and you see what you get. Either way.

 

[krs]

Two different solutions to send a jpg as an attahment rather than an embedded image, both straight forward -I wonder why Apple Support couldn't come up with this.

However, I'm not sure I understand the problem.

For maybe five years now, I've been trying to get a software issue fixed, with no luck.
I talk to Apple Tech Support, they connect to my computer, and tell me lots of ways around the problem, but nothing works.

I want to be able to send a medical image to others, using Apple Mail, sending it as a normal mail attachment, so it is received by the other person as an attachment, that they can save, and have a complete copy of my original file, with all EXIF data in place.

The problem is that when Apple Mail sees that a file is either a jpg, a png, or a pdf, the mail app embeds the image into the message, which means it is useless at the receiving end.

Asa test, I just sent a jpg image as an embedded file (not as an attachment) to another Mac and the EXIF data at the receiving end is identical to the EXIF date of the original image - so I can't even duplicate the problem - at least between two Macs.

 

[mikemyers]

For me, if I click on the embedded image, it doesn't even know the original file name. It asks me to save it, having selected a name to save it as.

 

[krs]

For me, if I click on the embedded image, it doesn't even know the original file name. It asks me to save it, having selected a name to save it as.

I wonder if it depends on the macOS one is using - I'm currently on Mojave.

When I get an email with an attachment, including embeded images, I either select "File > Save Attachments" in Apple Mail or I can do a right click on the image and select "Save Attachment" that way.
It shows the original image name in either case.
If you select "Save as ....." the assumption is that you change something and you want a different name.

The EXIF for the jpg I tested is under "Get Info" - for that one needs to select the saved file (in a folder or desktop) using the right-click option.
As I said, the EXIF info of the original and sent embedded via Apple Mail is the same - but that is sending from Mac to Mac.

 

[mikemyers]

Maybe it worked with Mojave? I don't remember what OS was installed in 2015 or so.

About what you wrote - the people sending emails at the hospital mostly have Windows, but those who have Macs use the software the Mac came with. I doubt if anyone knows or cares what computer the recipient for the email is using.

Please try my suggestion. If you have a file named krs1000.jpg, mail it to yourself as you normally would. Then rename it as krs1000jpg.abc and mail it. In the first case, it will be embedded. In the second case, it will be a normal attachment.

If you ask around, you will find this applies to "jpg", "png", and "pdf" documents, all of which when sent as attachments get embedded automatically. Any other file type goes into a normal attached file, and is never embedded.

What is your email. I will send you an image file, first as a jpg and after renaming, as a "abc" file. The first will get embedded. The second will reach you as a normal attachment.

-mike

 

[mikemyers]

I wonder if it depends on the macOS one is using - I'm currently on Mojave.

When I get an email with an attachment, including embeded images, I either select "File > Save Attachments" in Apple Mail or I can do a right click on the image and select "Save Attachment" that way.
It shows the original image name in either case.
If you select "Save as ....." the assumption is that you change something and you want a different name.

The EXIF for the jpg I tested is under "Get Info" - for that one needs to select the saved file (in a folder or desktop) using the right-click option.
As I said, the EXIF info of the original and sent embedded via Apple Mail is the same - but that is sending from Mac to Mac.

That is so wrong. For me, I use "save as" so I can select the folder in which I want the thing saved.

Do it again, and try to "save as" to your desktop, or your DOWNLOADS folder. As I recall, it won't even know what the file name used to be.

 

[MacInWin]

There is no "save as" option in Mail. When I right-click the received image, I get this menu:


The "Save Attachment.." option lets me pick where and when I do, it saves, with all EXIF data intact.
And it knew the file name to save.

 

[MacInWin]

Here's what I see when I pick "Save Attachment..."

You can see the image name as it was sent, and the option to pick where you want it to go. And as I said, when I saved to the Desktop, all EXIF data was preserved.

 

[IWT]

I wonder if it depends on the macOS one is using - I'm currently on Mojave.

The method described by krs does the same on macOS 11 Big Sur (BS)

Do it again, and try to "save as" to your desktop, or your DOWNLOADS folder. As I recall, it won't even know what the file name used to be.

This works fine for me in macOS 11 Big Sur (BS), on my wife's MBP which runs macOS Mojave and on my older backup iMac running macOS High Sierra - just as you described. Right Click offers several choices including Downloads and Desktop - but NOT Save As.

And I send and receive medical (and "normal") images to/from colleagues on a near-daily basis. All the metadata, if any relevant is revealed by Cmd plus i - as krs said.

Ian

 

[mikemyers]

Well, I just attached the original file, IMG_5805.jpg, along with the file I had renamed as IMG_5805 copy.abc

So far so good. I received the email, and you suggested, clicked on "save to downloads file". I then went to the original and did "get info", then to the version I received in my incoming email, again with "get info". I am attaching a screen capture of both "get info" results side by side.

The image name has changed.
Lots of original data has vanished.
The capture date was June 28, for the original, and January 9 after emailing.

This illustrates my problem better than anything I can write, and yes, the "windows friendly attachments" was selected.

The goal is to send the original jpg file to anyone on planet earth, with any computer, and have them receive a duplicate of the original file, with all original data.


So, either what am I doing "wrong", and how can I "fix" this, or how can I get Apple to fix it?

 

[krs]

Please try my suggestion. If you have a file named krs1000.jpg, mail it to yourself as you normally would. Then rename it as krs1000jpg.abc and mail it. In the first case, it will be embedded. In the second case, it will be a normal attachment.

If you ask around, you will find this applies to "jpg", "png", and "pdf" documents, all of which when sent as attachments get embedded automatically. Any other file type goes into a normal attached file, and is never embedded.

I'm not questioning that.

My understanding is if the attachment can be displayed as a single page file it is embedded.
So yes, by default jpg, png and tiff files are embedded, pdf files are only embedded if the pdf is a single page - if it is a multi-page pdf it shows up as an icon.
But you can show these "embedded files" as icons (or what look more like attachments) as Jake explained in post #3.
However,as I understand the issue - it's not that the image is embedded but that the EXIF data is no longer provided at the receiving end and that the image name is somehow lost.
I could not duplicate that.

 

[mikemyers]

No, the EXIF data is not by itself the main problem.

The problem is that things get changed when an image is embedded. You could mail the attachment to me, and I can forward it to someone else, who in turn forwards it again. The original attachment should be identical.

"My understanding is if the attachment can be displayed as a single page file it is embedded."

Actually, the problem is any file with an extension of jpg, png, or pdf gets embedded. Apple mail shouldn't have any idea of what the file is, or its name. It's a file. Period. It should be attached normally (UNLESS the sender wants it to be embedded, which is fine. Windows gives us a choice with Microsoft Outlook. I can send a photo as an attachment, or as embedded.

That is what Apple Mail needs to do.

I'm not smart enough to figure out any way to do this - I guess I could "zip" my attachments, but that's silly. The person at the receiving end may have no idea what a zippy file is or does.....

 

[krs]

Whicj is the original sent image and which is the received image?

I see the image name being the same; the jpg and jpeg extensions are equivalent, however one image is a lot smaller than the other.
On Apple Mail there is an option at the very right where one can selet the size of the image being sent - I assume you have selected "small"
The option only shows once an image is attached.

------------------

Well, I just attached the original file, IMG_5805.jpg, along with the file I had renamed as IMG_5805 copy.abc

So far so good. I received the email, and you suggested, clicked on "save to downloads file". I then went to the original and did "get info", then to the version I received in my incoming email, again with "get info". I am attaching a screen capture of both "get info" results side by side.

The image name has changed.
Lots of original data has vanished.
The capture date was June 28, for the original, and January 9 after emailing.

This illustrates my problem better than anything I can write, and yes, the "windows friendly attachments" was selected.

The goal is to send the original jpg file to anyone on planet earth, with any computer, and have them receive a duplicate of the original file, with all original data.


So, either what am I doing "wrong", and how can I "fix" this, or how can I get Apple to fix it? View attachment 33204

 

[krs]

No, the EXIF data is not by itself the main problem.

The problem is that things get changed when an image is embedded.

Try selecting "Actual Size" for image size in Apple Mail rather than reduced size to see what you get - that should help with some parameters.

The created and modified dates area bit of a mystery to me - I don't understand why "created" changed.
It did that with my tests as well.

 

[krs]

I am attaching a screen capture of both "get info" results side by side.

The image name has changed.

I see the same image name: IMG_5805

Lots of original data has vanished.

What specifically? I don't see any parameter in the right original that is not in the left copy.

The capture date was June 28, for the original, and January 9 after emailing.

Yes, the original date should stay the same.
Maybe someone else can comment on that.

 

[MacInWin]

Looking at the two Get Info panels, the files have different names. One is jpg, the other is jpeg. They are two different sizes, both in bytes and in pixels. So they are NOT the same file. They are two different files. And if the one on the left was from Mail, it was sent at something other than the Actual Size, because it is a different size. The "Where from" data is different because the one on the right came from your iPhone, the other one came from Mail.

Remember, file dates are associated with the FILE not the image. So the FILE date can, and probably will, be different, but the data on the IMAGE should remain the same, which it does, except for the fact that YOU changed the image dimensions by emailing it as something other that Actual Size. So the Dimensions on the left show the dimensions of what you sent, while the one on the right shows what the image originally was. But it's the fact that it was sent at something other than Actual Size that created that difference.

 

[MacInWin]

Yes, the original date should stay the same.
Maybe someone else can comment on that.

No, original date is associated with the FILE, not the image. To demonstrate, here is a screenshot of my Downloads folder:



There are two files there, one that I emailed to myself at Actual Size and then saved to Downloads. The date of the FILE clearly shows it was created today at 1:34.

Now here is the EXIF data from opening the file in Preview, using Tools and Show Inspector to get to the EXIF data:


Note the date of the image, August 15, 2013. Unless I use an EXIF data editor, that date will remain the same no matter what. But the FILE data can seriously change. I made a copy of the FILE and got the version with "copy" in the name. I can change the name of the file, but the EXIF data doesn't change UNLESS I use Preview, or some other tool, to change the dimensions of the image. Mail, when you use other than Actual Size, changes the dimensions of the image, so the EXIF data changes to reflect that, but the rest stays the same.

The Get Info data is mostly about the FILE, with some of the Exif data thrown in.