Retain Window positions after sleep under Ventura

[spock999]

I have recently changed from a late 2015 27" iMac to the base level Mac Studio. The only other "major" decision was to avoid buying the Apple Studio display on cost vs features grounds. It is very expensive for the feature set and is cheaper to buy an alternative with more up to date features. I chose the Lenovo Pu27-20 even though it is 4K rather than 5K like the retina screen of my old iMac and the Studio Display. As a second display in extended mode I have an old eizo 24" which I also used as the second display with the iMac.

So the major change with displays now is that I have the Lenovo as the primary screen rather than the 27" retina integral to the iMac. I have also upgraded to Ventura rather than Monterey which was the limit for the iMac.

I have gone through a process of setting up the Mac Studio and basically mimicked the iMac settings but there is one very irritating issue that I can't find a way to resolve; ie retaining app window placements after the display switches off. All of the windows I have open are dumped onto the primary screen and I then have to sort them out before I can resume working. If it is a short break within the time the screensaver is working, then the window placement is retained.

I have tried with the computer both set to sleep when the display turns off and not set to sleep (in advanced display settings!). It doesn't make any difference the window settings are lost either way. I have tried turning off the display before the screensaver is engaged with exactly the same result. So it appears that it is the screen saver which retains the window placements and they are lost when the display is turned off.

This wasn't an issue previously under various operating systems through the years. So what has changed? Either the implementation of the various display settings has changed with Ventura or it is the fact that I am not using an Apple display as my primary display. Having done some painstaking internet searches, this seems to have been a problem for years so it looks like not using an Apple display is the problem.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I will not buy the Studio display for an extra £1000 roughly until it is much more in line with current display technology. Basically, I want to have a few basic apps located on Desktop 1 (extended) in fixed positions with the freedom to open other apps (eg spreadsheet, Word processor, Firefox etc) over them with different sized windows unconstrained by the permanent apps but not disturbing them. Desktops 2 & 3 are reserved for Lightroom and Photoshop respectively. The requirement is to be able to take a break and return without having to sort out the windows!!!

As yet I haven't tried Stage Manager as that reads as being quite restrictive and limited in how you use the desktop by the spaces you allocate. and most of the other apps I have investigated don't look to give me the flexibility I want.

Thanks.

 

[MacInWin]

I suspect that the CPU is shutting down when the display goes to sleep. In System Settings, I think there is a setting for Power or something like that. In my MBP it's called battery because I have one, but I think it has a different name in systems like the Mini and Studio. Anyway, under Displays, Advanced, there is an option to prevent automatic sleeping when the display is off. Try turning that option ON so that the CPU stays on, ticking over, even when the display is off. The power usage is minimal.

 

[spock999]

have tried with the computer both set to sleep when the display turns off and not set to sleep (in advanced display settings!). It doesn't make any difference the window settings are lost either way. I have tried turning off the display before the screensaver is engaged with exactly the same result. So it appears that it is the screen saver which retains the window placements and they are lost when the display is turned off.

I already tried that! In fact it was how I had the iMac set up and when I transferred to the Mac Studio, I migrated the complete system and then upgraded back to Ventura to retain my settings.

I have tried all of the options I can think of and only while the screen saver is on does it retain the window settings when I start it up again. The only other option that does that is to switch it off altogether and on restart it replaces all of the windows in the correct position but obviously that is more trouble than anything because I have to get back to where I left off.

It's a complete pain and something that has been questioned quite a few times but no satisfactory solution has been given. I thought I would ask just in case. I have wondered whether this is just a complete oversight by Apple or, cynically, whether they are trying to convince people it's better to just buy Apple kit!!!

 

[ferrarr]

What ports are being used by which display? Have you tried changing both of those? When I had my 2014 Mini, I noticed that the Thunderbolt 2 port and the HDMI port behaved differently when either port was set as the main display.

 

[spock999]

I have limited options with my old Eizo S2433W because of the ports (Displayport, HDMI and DVI) getting suitable cables is an issue!. I am using a display port to thunderbolt cable feeding into the Mac Studio and the Lenovo is connected by a Thunderbolt 4 cable. I did try making the Eizo as the primary display but it was exactly the same with all windows then dumped on the Eizo which was even more complicated to sort out!! I do have an HDMI cable which I could use to connect the Lenovo but haven't tried that.

I have wondered whether it is a timing issue because the Eizo tends to come up first when I restart.

 

[pm-r]

I have wondered whether it is a timing issue because the Eizo tends to come up first when I restart.

I guess you have checked out the suggestion at these two sites:

Ventura forgets display settings - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com

Waking from sleep, windows on external Di… - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com

And did you catch this solution:

Nov 22, 2022 8:45 PM in response to RR_M_SS

I use the app “Moom” (paid app), which has a preference that can memorize your window arrangement in a per monitor basis, including single monitor (eg. You laptop) or multiple monitors.

another utility is “Stay” (paid app), which does more or less the same thing.

Updating a Mac doesn't seem to be a very pleasant exercise for many these days, which is a bit of a bummer...



- Patrick
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[spock999]

Thanks. Those solutions don't help. I am reluctant to buy an app without being able to try it first. When I downloaded Moom it did open but it just wasn't obvious what to do with it so it has gone now!! I had looked at them before and none of these apps seemed to do what I want.

I think I am just going to have to live with this problem as finding a solution that suits me is taking up too much time and most of the solutions seem to be as much trouble as the problem. Thank you all for trying to help.

 

[pm-r]

I had looked at them before and none of these apps seemed to do what I want.

Apart from those my link already suggested, you might want to have a quick look for some possible others that are listed under Similar apps at:

Download Stay for Mac | MacUpdate

Download the latest version of Stay for Mac for free. Read 11 user reviews and compare with similar apps on MacUpdate.

www.macupdate.com

Or even try your own search at that site for other possible choices regarding keeping window position.

I would think it would be very annoying for your window locations not to remain where you think they should or or want them to or even used to.



- Patrick
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[spock999]

It is very annoying but I need to move on and can't spend my life trying to resolve the unresolvable. Consequently, I am adapting my workflow to minimise the hassle and move on.

It doesn't speak well of Apple because effectively they aren't dealing with a known bug which has been around for quite a while annoying users and the problem has become worse with recent versions of the operating system. I can't believe it is too difficult to sort if the put their collective minds to it so I can only assume they regard it as convenient to leave it unsolved for commercial reasons!!!

 

[pm-r]

but there is one very irritating issue that I can't find a way to resolve; ie retaining app window placements after the display switches off. All of the windows I have open are dumped onto the primary screen and I then have to sort them out before I can resume working. If it is a short break within the time the screensaver is working, then the window placement is retained.

When and how do these "short breaks" happen and is the screensaver you are using have any effect on the time involved???
How long is a normal break when you do your monitor switching??

And are the window placements retained after that wait???

I guess I'm not actually super clear on your problem as to what is actually happening and the time involved.

I also have very little experience when using multiple monitors, and certainly not with the latest MacOS versions.

I'm also curious why you wouldn't try a possible solution as I suggested in my post above. Once set up you probably wouldn't even notice anything extra is working, and you would have things just the way you want.



- Patrick
=======

 

[spock999]

I use the features available in Apple system settings. While the screensaver is working, I could switch back and the windows were in their correct place. As soon as the system had timed out to close the display it lost the placements when I restarted. This was true with various settings for having the screensaver start and the close down occur. It happened with very short durations or quite long ones of up to 20 minutes. In no instance while the apple screensaver was working did it lose the settings but as soon as the display closed down they were lost. Hence my view that the placement settings are held in the screensaver rather than in a place accessible to the restart.

As to the options you have proposed, I have looked but they don't look right for me. Thank you for trying to help but I reiterate that the whole process of investigating solutions was taking too much time as I want to do other things. So this is my last reply on this subject.

 

[pm-r]

As to the options you have proposed, I have looked but they don't look right for me. Thank you for trying to help but I reiterate that the whole process of investigating solutions was taking too much time as I want to do other things. So this is my last reply on this subject.

O.K., so I guess you won't be notifying Apple of your specific problem so that they could possibly address it at some point if they see it is really a problem for most users.



- Patrick
=======

 

[Adrianme]

I'm having the same issue on multiple MacBooks, both Intel and M1. One thing i did notice is that if quit the application before putting the computer to sleep and then open the app after I login, it remembers the apps window location. So i have started closing Chrome before putting it to sleep and then opening when i log back in. Definitely not ideal though. I really can't understand how a Trillion dollar company can't find a fix for this issue, especially since it was a problem in previous version of Mac OS. So dumb.

 

[spock999]

Simple really! I am convinced that they don't think it is in their financial interest to resolve the problem. They want to make us think that we have to buy their kit. The other problem is that if the computer goes to sleep they (the apps that is) forget their position. If Apple wished it would be a simple matter to remember the positions so that they resume on restart.

 

[Rod]

You could simply keep the screen saver on, just a thought. I also had a problem with my CPU not waking after sleep requiring repetitive reboots to get it operating again. My obvious fear was that eventually it would not boot at all and require replacement. I tried everything to find and fix the problem but eventually resorted to a utility called Amphetamine (advised by MacInWin) ‎Amphetamine
This utility sort of "tickles" the CPU to prevent it from shutting down completely during sleep. It's simple to set to "never" and worked for me when nothing else did.

 

[m4cph1st0]

Hi, been having the exact same issue on my M1 MBP with the latest Ventura etc. Long time Apple user, can't remember this ever being an issue with my old 2015 MBP and the exact same screens I'm using now -- indeed not made by Apple. Kinda have to agree with OP on that last conspiracy note, this smells like the iMessage bs all over again, only this time done to Apple customers. I'm quite fed up, it would be good it somebody dag deeper into it.

 

[MacInWin]

Hi, been having the exact same issue on my M1 MBP with the latest Ventura etc. Long time Apple user, can't remember this ever being an issue with my old 2015 MBP and the exact same screens I'm using now -- indeed not made by Apple. Kinda have to agree with OP on that last conspiracy note, this smells like the iMessage bs all over again, only this time done to Apple customers. I'm quite fed up, it would be good it somebody dag deeper into it.

And yet, it works fine for me using an LG as a second screen to my MBP in my profile. So, it's not something Apple has baked into the system, it's some setting you need to change. My settiings are to allow the display(s) to go dark after 5 minutes, set in Settings, Lock Screen. Then in Settings, Displays, Advanced I have "Prevent automatic sleeping..." turned ON so that the CPU is kept alive when the screen goes dark. I have five apps that open on boot/login, and I have used the Dock icon for them to assign them to the LG monitor by putting a check by the "Options," "Assign to" for the Desktop on the Second display. Finally, under Desktop and Dock, Set up Spaces, I have turned on "Automatically rearrange Spaces based on the most recent use" and "Displays have separate Spaces." Now, any app that I open goes to the assigned space and on boot, the five I open every time go to the assigned location in the assigned space on the assigned display.

 

[m4cph1st0]

And yet, it works fine for me using an LG as a second screen to my MBP in my profile. So, it's not something Apple has baked into the system, it's some setting you need to change. My settiings are to allow the display(s) to go dark after 5 minutes, set in Settings, Lock Screen. Then in Settings, Displays, Advanced I have "Prevent automatic sleeping..." turned ON so that the CPU is kept alive when the screen goes dark. I have five apps that open on boot/login, and I have used the Dock icon for them to assign them to the LG monitor by putting a check by the "Options," "Assign to" for the Desktop on the Second display. Finally, under Desktop and Dock, Set up Spaces, I have turned on "Automatically rearrange Spaces based on the most recent use" and "Displays have separate Spaces." Now, any app that I open goes to the assigned space and on boot, the five I open every time go to the assigned location in the assigned space on the assigned display.

I stand corrected, thanks for pointing these out. I don't use Spaces but had "Automatically rearrange Spaces based on the most recent use" and "Displays have separate Spaces" both on since I got this new Mac. After turning these off, my windows are where they should be when the Mac wakes back from sleep. Probably a more power-aware option if you don't care about Spaces.