Should I upgrade to Sonoma?

[Sawday]

I have a 2020 iMac with 40Gb RAM running running Ventura. Should I consider upgrading to Sonoma? What might the downsides be? I'm cautious because over the last few years with each upgrade I lose the ability to run several of my favourite programs and to be honest I could do without the hassle. Has anyone had any particular issues with programs/apps Sonoma doesn't like. On the other hand am I missing anything that could be a game changer?

 

[IWT]

I had no problem going from Ventura to Sonoma, neither did an old gentleman for whom I provide all his Mac devices.

The Upgrade went well and I'd go for it if I were you. Sonoma is now into version .5 so I think it's fair to say that any initial problems are out of the way. Your Mac is only 4 years old and should handle Sonoma withe ease.

Personal opinion.

Ian

 

[Groovetube]

I was waiting until this week with .5, I have major apps that don’t play well with updates, and all is running great now in Sonoma.

 

[Rod]

As I do with everybody, I advise you check those apps that have been problematic in the past at their respective web sites first. Some will even say something like, "Now Compatible with macOS Sonoma" and or give details of what that may mean for users, changes to their new version or update. At the very least they should list version compatibility and dates last updates were released.
Beyond that there isn't much more you can do.

I don't recall anything on my MBP that ran on Ventura that did not run well on Sonoma and Version 14.5 is probably the final release so it doesn't get any better than this with the next macOS due to be announced in June.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

I have a 2020 iMac with 40Gb RAM running running Ventura. Should I consider upgrading to Sonoma? What might the downsides be?

Sonoma has been a pretty solid release of the Mac OS. I've heard almost no complaints about it. A very few folks have complained about no being able to get it to install, and a few have complained about losing the use of USB peripherals until they got things sorted out. See:

Fix Common Sonoma Issues.
https://www.makeuseof.com/fix-common-macos-sonoma-issues/

Has anyone had any particular issues with programs/apps Sonoma doesn't like.

You can check your apps for compatibility here:

App Compatibility Lookup
https://roaringapps.com

or

App Compatibility List
https://roaringapps.com/apps

On the other hand am I missing anything that could be a game changer?

It depends on what you consider a game changer. At the minimum, all newer versions of the Mac OS tend to have significantly improved security than the previous version. That said, no one using an older version of the Mac OS is complaining of security problems.

There is a long list of the major(ish) improvements that Sonoma offers here:

https://www.apple.com/macos/sonoma/

 

[Sawday]

Thank you. A job for next weekend I think. Randy, thanks for those links, unfortunately many of them have a question mark against many of the programs... but then they do for Ventura too. Guess I'll have to just check my 'must haves' with the appropriate companies and then go for it.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

The only program that I'd really be worried about is anything from Adobe. Adobe is very bad about updating software, and charging again for it when they do.

 

[Groovetube]

The adobe subscription apps are all running flawlessly here.

 

[OliviaClaire]

I have a 2020 iMac with 40Gb RAM running running Ventura. Should I consider upgrading to Sonoma? What might the downsides be? I'm cautious because over the last few years with each upgrade I lose the ability to run several of my favourite programs and to be honest I could do without the hassle. Has anyone had any particular issues with programs/apps Sonoma doesn't like. On the other hand am I missing anything that could be a game changer?

If your current setup works flawlessly and you can't tolerate potential disruptions, sticking with Ventura for now is a safe bet. It will still receive security updates for a while. The choice boils down to your priorities: new features and future-proofing or stability with your current software.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

...Should I consider upgrading to Sonoma? ...

Upgrading To The Latest Macintosh OS
http://www.macattorney.com/upos.html
(Suggestions for when and how to upgrade to the latest version of the Macintosh operating system.)

 

[Marrk]

Upgrading To The Latest Macintosh OS
Upgrading To The Very Latest Macintosh Operating System
(Suggestions for when and how to upgrade to the latest version of the Macintosh operating system.)

Can you comment on clone backups and systems like SuperDuper that are recommended in that link?

Thanks.

 

[pm-r]

Beyond that there isn't much more you can do.

How about creating and testing a current and bbootable clone before doing any update so you have a working OS you can boot from and still run all your software in case there is a problem with the Mac OS update?



- Patrick
=======

 

[Randy B. Singer]

Can you comment on clone backups and systems like SuperDuper that are recommended in that link?

Sure...what about them?

Do you need to know the difference between a clone backup and a versioned backup?

 

[IWT]

Can you comment on clone backups and systems like SuperDuper that are recommended in that link?

Apple Macs come with a backup system in place, only requiring an External Hard Drive (EHD) with a capacity of at least 1.5 times that of the Mac's Drive. This Backup (BU) system is called Time Machine (TM).

When attached by cable to the Mac, TM automatically backs up virtually everything except the Operating System. The backups are hourly for the past 24 hours, daily backups for the past month and weekly for all previous months. This system allows one to recover an accidentally deleted file for example.

It is particularly useful when a new Mac is purchased, as all of the data, settings and passwords, for example are transferred to that new Mac.

SuperDuper and CarbonCopyCloner create exact "clones" of your Mac's Drive at intervals set by the user. This link to one of them will give you an idea of how they work:

Carbon Copy Cloner: macOS Backup Software - Bombich Software

bombich.com

Hope that helps a bit.

Ian

 

[Marrk]

@IWT @Randy B. Singer I'll study this issue a little more and see if I can develop a clear question. Basically, the question is: If I want to backup my laptop, do I need a clone or TM? I think your answer will be that a clone is a complete, exact copy, but if I had to replace my laptop with a new one, I could get what I need with TM.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

@IWT @Randy B. Singer I'll study this issue a little more and see if I can develop a clear question. Basically, the question is: If I want to backup my laptop, do I need a clone or TM? I think your answer will be that a clone is a complete, exact copy, but if I had to replace my laptop with a new one, I could get what I need with TM.

You need *a* backup, it isn't critical which one that you have. Both will work to set up a brand new Macintosh using Migration Assistant. Either will save your bacon if you go to upgrade your Mac and things go sideways.

The major difference is that a versioned backup (e.g. TimeMachine) keeps backups of old versions of documents and deleted applications, a clone does not do this. A clone's major advantage is that it is a perfect duplicate of your hard drive as of the last time that you backed up, making it easier to access things manually or create a new identical main disk.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages. A clone is easier to work with, more reliable, and a faster way to get back up and running in the event of a drive failure. A versioned backup is invaluable if you need an older version of an important document.

My personal feeling is that TimeMachine can be really complex and difficult. If you doubt me, take a look at th eclectic light company’s offerings on the subject of TM:
https://eclecticlight.co/?s=time+machine

Personally I find the cloning program SuperDuper! to be the best choice if you are going to have only one backup:

SuperDuper! (free/$28)
http://www.shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper/SuperDuperDescription.html

I highly recommend this e-book if you want to know about this topic in great depth:

Take Control of Mac OS X Backups
by Joe Kissell
PDF format, 182 pages, 1.7MB download
Price: US$15 (Free 23-page sample available)
https://www.takecontrolbooks.com/backing-up/

 

[Slydude]

Both clones and Time Machine backups have their uses and there is a place for both if you have the time and drive space.

Time Machine backups occur automatically once they are properly set up. The initial backup takes some time but subsequent backups occur quickly and often you will not notice that they are happening. Time Machine backups can be used to restore your Mac if there are issues but it can be somewhat time-consuming..

Time Machine's major advantage IMHO is that it creates a versioned backup.

Suppose you created a Time Machine about a month ago. Over the last month, you've edited a document several times and now you'd like to go back to a version that you wrote two weeks ago. You can do that, by restoring any of the versions that you created over the last month.

Bootable Cones

A bootable clone contains a copy of everything on your computer's boot drive. With recent security improvements in Apple's hardware, making "bootable" clones can be a bit more "fiddly" than it used to be. The primary advantage of a "bootable' clone is that you can get back up and running quickly in many situations. Whether you have access to your most recent data depends upon how diligent you are in backing up your data.

@Randy B. Singer I promise I wasn't channeling you. You just type faster than I do.

 

[Marrk]

@Slydude & @Randy B. Singer Good explanations. Thank you.

I'm using TimeMachine. I make up backup every morning.

If someone were relying on cloning with no other backup, how often would they make a new clone? What would their strategy be? Just wondering.

 

[pm-r]

If someone were relying on cloning with no other backup, how often would they make a new clone? What would their strategy be? Just wondering.

I'm guessing that the cloning backup frequency would depend on the individual and their circumstances and could very from manual, run the schedule as it shoots their situation, maybe daily or bi-weekly but I don't know of anybody that goes further than monthly.

Most retired Mac users I know usually do at least a weekly clone. I would suspect that current business users do so much more frequently but wouldn't restrict themselves to only creating a clone would have another backup such as using Time Machine to complement their personal and business computer data Backup strategy.

The worst situation is not having any backup you can rely on when you really need access to some data.

As many have mentioned on these forums, sometimes even having multiple backups is not enough so it's good advice to have more than the minimum number of backups, cloned or otherwise.

And check occasionally that they are all working, and if you don't have anything and you don't want to lose your data, create a backup ASAP and do it today.




- Patrick
=======

 

[MacInWin]

I am not as harsh on TM as Randy is. TM is handy in that it can be made to make the backups automatically, without the user having to remember to do so. It also keeps versions, as has been mentioned. Clones of more modern Macs and versions of macOS are not as useful as they used to be when it was easy to boot from a clone. Apple's security now makes it more of a chore to boot from a clone, although it still can be done.

I guess my thinking is that the two, clone and TM, are different animals for different purposes. As has been mentioned, TM will keep versions, so if you need a file from six months ago, or three revisions ago, or something similar, TM is the better tool. On the other hand, if all you want/need is a copy of what is on your Mac right now, never from the past, then a clone will work well. Some of the clone software will archive files that have been removed from the newest clone, providing a kind-of versioning, although not as cleanly as TM does.

But as has been said before, any backup is better than no backup.