The most extreme series of Mods Ever Done To A Powerbook G4 Titanium

[nicholasdivitto]

So, first off, I'm new here. My name is Nick. I'm a senior in high school, and I'm interested in mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, and environmental engineering. So yeah, thats my life story. I've had a few PC's for the last 2 or three years. My first computer was a stupid old Dell P3 I bought second hand (or third or fourth hand) a couple years ago. Despite owning several PC's, and having the pass-time of building more PC's, I always loved macs. I'm a huge mac fan. My family has owned a Powermac G5 for something like 6 or 7 years now.

Anyway, I just recently dipped my feet into the waters of Apple and bought a non working Powermac G4 (I can't believe I though the G5's were beautiful, the G4 tops that 10x). Still working on getting that working. Just havnt really put forth the time.

But just last week I bought Powerbook G4 Titanium. I love this thing. This sounds very pathetic but it may be the fastest computer I have ever had. But there's a few problems:

1. HOT! God this thing runs hot... I have burnt my hand on the top left hand corner of the bottom case. I may have to try to cook something on it just for the **** of it. Anyway, I'm gonna have to improve cooling. Espescialy for some of the mods I plan on doing.

2. No Audio in. This is a revision B I believe 667 MHz VGA Titanium. There is no audio in jack and thats a problem for me because I need this to record Music.

3. Too loud. I may be being picky here, but I want it to be a bit quieter. If that fan kicks in while I'm recording, no doubt it will be picked up by mics.

4. Speakers sound terrible. Again, I know I'm being pick, and this probably won't matter, but I would like for the speakers to put out better sound quality. It sounds too tinny and, well, like small speakers.

5. Keyboard Doesn't light up. Annoying for using my laptop at night. I have to tilt the screen down to illuminate the keyboard, then the screen is at an angle and I can't see that as well.

6. Paint. It's chipping. I understand this is a common characteristic of Tibooks.

7. Battery life. It's not good at all. Maybe an hour at most. It's gonna be even worse if I start adding things.

8. Boring looking. I think it is fantastic looking, don't get me wrong, but I want to personalize it.

9. Display is screwed up. I got this PB for about 30 bucks shipped off ebay because the bottom third of the screen doesn't work. It starts out just black then turns white and has all these colored lines. I think it's a faulty LCD inverter.

10. Low HDD capacity. Says it all. 30 gigs (stock) won't be enough.

11. SLOW! Yes, it very well may be the fastest computer I have ever owned, but it's still slow. I want this laptop to be my main computer pretty much throughout college, or at least until I can afford something else, so it's gonna need some souping up.

12. Nostalgia. This is a Power PC mac. Thats not a problem, its a constraint. This project means a lot to me simply because I know I won't be able to compete with modern macs. To me, this laptop is going to stand for everything I always thought was great about Apple, everything that I wish was possible for them to do today. I know it won't be a supercomputer, but I think aiming for Best Powerbook G4 Titanium is reasonable enough, don't you think? I would be proud of that.

So thats my big rant. Now here's my plans:

1. Water cooling. I know you just shuddered at the sound of that. I'm still shuddering, but I think it's gonna be necessary to control the heat that other mods I have in mind will create. I plan on machining a thin copper water block to cover the CPU and the GPU (anything else need a heat sink?). a small radiator with a 120mm fan will be mounted on the back of the screen. I measured, it will fit. It will make the laptop more than twice as thick, but it will only be in that location and I don't think it will spoil the portability of the 'book. The pump I plan on using will be one from a model railroad set. a tiny pump that will fit right behind the combo-drive. I will have to test how much the pump can flow. I am going to mount everything on rubber dampers to reduce vibration and thus sound. I am using a big 120mm fan because it can run slower and I think much quieter than than the micro stock fan (need I say flow more air?).

2. Replacement logic board. I bought a logic board from a DVI Tibook, which has an audio in jack. I'm gonna have to drill and cut the back panel to make room for the jack and DVI port. the board I bought is a 867MHz board and will help a little with speed.

3. I think fan noise will be solved by water cooling. Rubber damping, big, slow spinning fan, no high revving fans.

4. Not sure there is much I can, or will do with the speaker sound. I'm gonna open it up and see what is currently in there, it may just be a matter of installing a couple speakers with softer cones and larger diaphrams to even out tone.

5. I'm gonna add a backlight on the keyboard. I've already tested shining flashlights through the back of the keyboard and I think it will be easy to wire in some led's to the two buttons that control screen brightness so they will control keyboard brightness also.

6. I already started sanding the paint off of the titanium parts. the bare titanium looks fantastic. its a fingerprint magnet, but I can live with that. As for the hinge parts and frame, I'm gonna sand the frame down to bare carbon fiber and I'm gonna paint the magnesium hinge covers black to match the frame. I'm using automotive paint so maybe it will hold up better with that and proper preparation.

7. I'm looking into getting a standard replacement battery. anybody know of any high capacity Tibook batteries?

8. I'm personalizing it by sanding it down to bare titanium, and contrasting it with black. On the lid I'm putting a fake carbon fiber decal about 3 inch by 4 inch that I will cut into the shape of the Ti icon on the periodic table. I will put it on the opposite side of the Apple logo as the radiator and fan. I'm thinking a blue led 120mm fan would look rediculous and just waste precious power so I'm looking for a plain translucent white one. The fluid inside the clear cooling lines going from the laptop body to the radiator may be blue though. I don't think that would be too over the top. I'm gonna take apart the power button and see if it would be possible to drill it out and have a white led shine through the "on" symbol and I would like to wire that to the same circuit as the light right under the screen which has the glow that grows and shrinks when in sleep mode, just like the power button on the powermac G5. For the logo on the back of the screen, I want to somehow mix the old rainbow logo with the new one, maybe have the rainbow fade into the modern white, I don't know, I'll come up with something.

9. I bought a new inverter board and hopefully when I install it it will fix the screen problem.

10. Easy to fix the hard drive. I think I'm just gonna go for a 500 gig 7200 RPM drive. I believe that is faster than the stock drive and should suffice as to my storage requirements.

11. The main coarse, OVERCLOCK! I've been doing research, the 867 is a lot easier to overclock than the 667 currently installed. I am confident that the water cooling can keep temps down enough for me to reach my goal of at least 1.2 GHz, maybe more. The key is going to be stability though, as I need this system to be somewhat reliable. I'm lookin around for some ram to bring it up to the full 1gig. Faster hard drive should help with that too.

12. This obveously is remaining powerpc G4, so what would you guys recommend for operating system? Currently installed is OSX Tiger. I've heard that new versions of OSX up till the intel format are weighed down. with what, I don't know. Or another option is linux. Anybody ahve any luck with certain Distros?

Well, thats pretty much it. This is going to be an interesting project I think. Any questions and comments, tips or tricks would be greatly appreciated. Or if you hate my guts, I think it would be pretty funny to hear about it.. haha
Thanks guys!
-Nick

 

[hugtheslug]

Fascinating, I would love to see your progress and some photos.

Leopard 10.5 is the latest OS you can install, and I've never noticed it being slower or more weighted than Tiger. Still using it now on an eMac.

Cheers

Hugh

 

[osxx]

Sounds interesting but not sure about the water cooling maybe better ducting and an
improved fan.

 

[nicholasdivitto]

I will definatly post pictures as soon as I can.

And what are your concerns about water cooling?

 

[pigoo3]

And what are your concerns about water cooling?

When was the last time you saw a "production" laptop with a water-cooling system? Concerns with water-cooling?...leaks.

As far as the heat...I don't remember any/many Powerbook G4's getting that hot...especially an 867mhz model...remembering that Powerbook G4's were as fast a 1.67ghz (which would certainly get much hotter).

I don't believe the Powerbook G4's got nearly as hot as almost any Intel based MacBook or MacBook Pro. I know that the fan/fans would get into high gear...and they would get warm

Good Luck

 

[robduckyworth]

have you ever water cooled a computer before?

and good luck trying to get an OC out of it. especially a 100% increase.

 

[nicholasdivitto]

pigoo, I remember seeing a toshiba laptop that came standard with watercooling, but I forget what its called. I'm not too concerned with leaks as I am going to thouroughly test this set up before I even think of putting it in the laptop.

As for heat generated, I don't know what to tell you, cause my PB 667MHz is burning hot...

rob, No I have no experience with water cooling computers. do you?

 

[pigoo3]

pigoo, I remember seeing a toshiba laptop that came standard with watercooling, but I forget what its called. I'm not too concerned with leaks as I am going to thouroughly test this set up before I even think of putting it in the laptop.

As for heat generated, I don't know what to tell you, cause my PB 667MHz is burning hot...

Yeah...initially a well put together water-cooling system may be fine...but after say 6-12 months of use...exposed to heat, vibration, and shocks that a laptop gets exposed to..with the system hold up. I think that we both know what happens to electronic equipment that's exposed to liquid.

Plus you've got to consider space. A water-cooling system would have to take up very little space...laptops (especially Apple laptops) have notoriously little free space inside of them (packed pretty tight).

What the heck are you doing with this 667mhz Powerbook G4 to make it heat up? Two things will do it (gaming & internet videos). But this laptop is so slow (by today's standards)...that doing gaming or internet videos would have to be VERY slow and VERY unsatisfying.

 

[nicholasdivitto]

The way I look at it, only the water block and the pump are going to be inside. I already established that the pump fits in the space behind the Disc drive. i pipe tubing from the pump to the waterblock, to the radiator, then back to the pump. Since the radiator is the highest point in the system it will act as the reservoir.

What if I use something like mineral oil as a cooling fluid? It doesn't conduct electricity and from what I've heard, it conducts heat pretty well.

The powerbook keyboard lifts up pretty easy so I can check on it from time to time without hassle.

And I don't know what I've been doing on the PB fro it to heat up. Youtube videos, and I'm typing this on it right now. Its at a pretty decent temp right now, still quite warm though

 

[nicholasdivitto]

Its not fair to say I'll be getting a 100% OC out of it because I'm not going to be starting from 667MHz, I'm starting from the 867MHz of the replacement board, which is the same board they use on the 1GHz model and has proven to many others that it is very capable of being OC'ed to 1.2 and beyond with proper cooling.

 

[pigoo3]

The way I look at it, only the water block and the pump are going to be inside. I already established that the pump fits in the space behind the Disc drive. i pipe tubing from the pump to the waterblock, to the radiator, then back to the pump. Since the radiator is the highest point in the system it will act as the reservoir.

What if I use something like mineral oil as a cooling fluid? It doesn't conduct electricity and from what I've heard, it conducts heat pretty well.

I like to compare things to other things. In automobiles...water & petroleum products are used to cool various systems:

- Water + antifreeze to cool the engine
- oil to a degree to lubricate & cool parts
- transmission fluid for the transmission (cooling & lubrication)
- differential fluid for the differentials

All of these systems can have a "radiator" incorporated into them for cooling. I think generally speaking...the petroleum products are used for lubrication (since they make physical/direct contact with the parts) and resistance to thermal breakdown. But because they're thicker (more viscous than water) they may hold more heat, are harder to circulate, and need more surface area to cool them.

How does this relate to a water-cooling system in a computer? A liquid such as water is probably easier to deal with...pumps easier, easier to cool (but it may boil if the system doesn't cool enough or if some sort of glycol/"antifreeze" isn't added to the water to raise it's boiling point).

One difficulty to setting up a water cooling system in a computer that never had one is cooling capacity (btu's generated vs. btu's of cooling capacity). If you don't have enough cooling capacity...the laptop may eventually get hot (depending on hours of continuous use). If you have too much cooling capacity...then the system may take up too much space. So it may be a "trail & error" experiment for a home user/experimenter.

 

[nicholasdivitto]

That is a good point with the viscocity. I have never seen anybody try to pump mineral oil through a system, it was just used to submerge an entire pc. I agree, it is going to take a lot of trial and error, but then again, I have lots of time

 

[pigoo3]

I agree, it is going to take a lot of trial and error, but then again, I have lots of time

That's the fun part of an experiment like this!

If you don't already...make sure you have some sort of temperature monitoring application to see how the various things you try are working out.

Here's some apps. for older Macintosh computers (double check the OS requirements):

Software for Vintage and Obsolete Computers

Other apps. may be available as well.

 

[nicholasdivitto]

All I have for monitering temperature is a small thermometer attachment for my multimeter that I can place on small electrical components. I'm not sure how accurate this is. I tried using temperature moniter from the list of apps you linked, but it just tells me there are no sensors available. Does the powerbook Ti not have any temp sensers? then how does it know to rev up the fan? I'm confused

 

[pigoo3]

All I have for monitering temperature is a small thermometer attachment for my multimeter that I can place on small electrical components. I'm not sure how accurate this is.

I was going to suggest this...but I wasn't sure if you had access to one. Even if it's not super accurate...the important thing is being able to detect relative differences with the things you try.

For example if you're measuring cpu temp (or even the temp of your cooling fluid)...the idea is to be able to measure differences. So if the cooling fluid/medium is reading 150°F with one cooling setup...and then 140°F with a second setup...you know that you're making progress...even if the "real temps" may be 155°F & 145°F.

I tried using temperature moniter from the list of apps you linked, but it just tells me there are no sensors available. Does the powerbook Ti not have any temp sensers? then how does it know to rev up the fan? I'm confused

Yes...many older computers didn't have as many temp sensors...or sensors that were accessible to users via apps. So you may have to rely on your multimeter setup for your temps. On older computers...heat wasn't as much of an issue (as it is on today's computers)...so being able to monitor temps as carefully wasn't as important.

 

[nicholasdivitto]

I see. well, lets find out what needs to be in contact with the waterblock...

 

[robduckyworth]

1. HOT! God this thing runs hot... I have burnt my hand on the top left hand corner of the bottom case. I may have to try to cook something on it just for the **** of it. Anyway, I'm gonna have to improve cooling. Espescialy for some of the mods I plan on doing.

2. No Audio in. This is a revision B I believe 667 MHz VGA Titanium. There is no audio in jack and thats a problem for me because I need this to record Music.

3. Too loud. I may be being picky here, but I want it to be a bit quieter. If that fan kicks in while I'm recording, no doubt it will be picked up by mics.

4. Speakers sound terrible. Again, I know I'm being pick, and this probably won't matter, but I would like for the speakers to put out better sound quality. It sounds too tinny and, well, like small speakers.

5. Keyboard Doesn't light up. Annoying for using my laptop at night. I have to tilt the screen down to illuminate the keyboard, then the screen is at an angle and I can't see that as well.

6. Paint. It's chipping. I understand this is a common characteristic of Tibooks.

7. Battery life. It's not good at all. Maybe an hour at most. It's gonna be even worse if I start adding things.

8. Boring looking. I think it is fantastic looking, don't get me wrong, but I want to personalize it.

9. Display is screwed up. I got this PB for about 30 bucks shipped off ebay because the bottom third of the screen doesn't work. It starts out just black then turns white and has all these colored lines. I think it's a faulty LCD inverter.

10. Low HDD capacity. Says it all. 30 gigs (stock) won't be enough.

11. SLOW! Yes, it very well may be the fastest computer I have ever owned, but it's still slow. I want this laptop to be my main computer pretty much throughout college, or at least until I can afford something else, so it's gonna need some souping up.

12. Nostalgia. This is a Power PC mac. Thats not a problem, its a constraint. This project means a lot to me simply because I know I won't be able to compete with modern macs.

You nailed it. throw it in the bin and don't waste your time. water cooling will not work, itll be slow, its on old PPC architecture, so no recent apps will work on it.

If this is just some kind of wierd experiment, then by all means, go ahead. but dont expect this contraption to be of much use. Make sure you take proper health and safety precautions.

 

[nicholasdivitto]

You nailed it. throw it in the bin and don't waste your time. water cooling will not work, itll be slow, its on old PPC architecture, so no recent apps will work on it.

If this is just some kind of wierd experiment, then by all means, go ahead. but dont expect this contraption to be of much use. Make sure you take proper health and safety precautions.

wah such a debbie downer why are people so rediculously practical sometimes...

Its amazing how you managed to spot that sentence without reading the rest of it because you clearly don't understand that the purpose of this project is to make a laptop that I already own more usable. It may be worthless to you, but to me, who doesn't have an unlimited amount of money, or to anybody who would rather put an old computer to good use than have it sit in their closet, this is much more important.

Anyway, thank you for your comments, I will carry on with my project now.

BTW, if you have any G4's sittin in your little bin, I'll gladly take them

 

[pigoo3]

wah such a debbie downer why are people so rediculously practical sometimes...

Anyway, thank you for your comments, I will carry on with my project now.

Not sure how much you paid for this 667mhz Powerbook G4...but part of the problem with "playing around" with such old computers is the cost of using them.

Most folks need OS install disks (can be expensive) and software (hard to find)...and the cost of upgrades (hard drives, ram, laptop battery, etc.) can REALLY add up.

If all you do with this computer is experiment with a liquid cooling system I think that would be ok...but if add up a lot of the "mods" you're talking about + the cost of the Powerbook itself...you could have gotten a better laptop to start with.

But it depends on your goals. If you want to experiment and learn (even if the total cost doesn't make financial sense)...that's ok! But if your goal is to have a computer to keep & use...then the money spent may be better put towards a slightly newer computer (like an early MacBook).

 

[nicholasdivitto]

But the thing is, I have all of the software and OS discs I will ever need with this computer. My family had that G5 for a long time and they purchased a lot of PPC software. So I honestly think it makes sense to use this computer. I don''t need a Macbook, all I ever do is social networking, online videos, forums, word processing, audio recording, minor photo editing and email, and this computer is already capable of doing all that. I cannot understand the logic of buying a Macbook for a lot more than that if I'm not going to do anything to utilize the power it has. Thats just not efficient. And my mods I have planned are not expensive. Not when most of the parts required to do them I already have from working on PC's. That is why I chose to do it on a Powerbook, because that's all I really need, and thats all I really can afford.

I paid 20 dollars plus some shipping. for this 99% perfect Powerbook, with an airport card, battery that holds charge for a little while, and a charger