Viewing photos at 100%

[Nikus]

Hello,

When I view photos on M2 MacBook Air Ventura 13.2.x, I noticed that in Preview app, Safari and Chrome, 100% zoom shows photos uploaded at native camera resolution at well over 100%. The problem is the same on the built-in and external Dell 4k displays. Photos app, Capture One and NX Studio all zoom 1:1 correctly. So I have to download images and view them in those, which is a pain. Before Ventura I used Windows 11, where the same problem occurred with system scaling >100%. But I could solve it in Chrome zooming out of a tab by % inverse of the system scaling. Not sure how this works on MacOs.

Any ideas on how to resolve this ?

Thanks!

 

[MacInWin]

Welcome to the forum.

I am confused. I am running Ventura 13.2.1 on my M1 MBP, and when I open Preview, there is no "100% zoom" option. I see "Actual Size" and "Zoom to fit," "Zoom in," and "Zoom out," but no "100%" Also, the image I exported from Photos is the same size, in pixels, as it was when in Photos.

So, What is it you are actually trying to say? Can you be a bit more specific on what are seeing? And what do you mean by this:

I noticed that in Preview app, Safari and Chrome, 100% zoom shows photos uploaded at native camera resolution at well over 100%.

What is "well over 100%?"

 

[Nikus]

Thank you!

I'll try to illustrate.
The first screenshot is Preview Actual Size compared to Photo app 100%.
The second one - from left to right Preview Actual Size, equal to Chrome full magnification compared to Capture 1 100%.
Chrome full maginification is the same as Safari and Preview App Actual Size. Photo app 100% is the same as Capture 1.

 

[techiesteve]

After culling a photo shoot I edit RAW images in Photoshop/Adobe Camera Raw. Then open in Photoshop and check each image at 100% to the standard specified by the photo agency I supply before saving as an 8 bit jpeg file at highest quality ready for uploading. I know the agency will also check an unknown statistical quantity also at 100%. I have previously used a trial of Capture One 22, and noted the same end results at 100%. I would never consider using Preview or browsers to check or view images. I do use a fast image viewer Lyn (displays RAW and jpeg files instantly) simply as a viewer, and sometimes to make a final selection. Your Capture One will give accurate 100% views as will Nikon's NX Studio. I don't use Apple's photos.

 

[MacInWin]

Thank you!

I'll try to illustrate.
The first screenshot is Preview Actual Size compared to Photo app 100%.
The second one - from left to right Preview Actual Size, equal to Chrome full magnification compared to Capture 1 100%.
Chrome full maginification is the same as Safari and Preview App Actual Size. Photo app 100% is the same as Capture 1.

I still don't fully understand. In Photos, there is no "100%" as far as I can see. There is a slider bar in the top bar than can be adjusted to 100%. Is hat what you mean by "Photo app 100%?"

I used a photo I took of a label on a device for which I needed the model number. Here is a screenshot of it in Preview an Photos:



The front image to the left is Preview viewed at "Actual Size" and then the Preview window sized to be the same as the Photos window. On the right, behind, is the image in Photos with the slider at 100%. The two are slightly differently sized for some reason, but not as different as yours. I don't use Chrome, so I can't say what it is doing.

Here is the information from Preview about the image:



And here is from the Photos information:


Both are, as can be seen, 4032 x 3024 pixels. exactly the same. The image as stored in Photos is in HEIC format, but Photos exported it to jpeg, I exported the image again as HEIC and now have three to compare:


Left to right--Preview of JPEG, Original in Photos, Preview of HEIC. Not much difference, again. But the HEIC is closer to the 100% in Photos, so there may be something going on with the export to jpeg. But all three are the same 4032 x 3024 pixels, so any difference is in the way the images are displayed, not in the images themselves.

 

[Nikus]

After culling a photo shoot I edit RAW images in Photoshop/Adobe Camera Raw. Then open in Photoshop and check each image at 100% to the standard specified by the photo agency I supply before saving as an 8 bit jpeg file at highest quality ready for uploading. I know the agency will also check an unknown statistical quantity also at 100%. I have previously used a trial of Capture One 22, and noted the same end results at 100%. I would never consider using Preview or browsers to check or view images. I do use a fast image viewer Lyn (displays RAW and jpeg files instantly) simply as a viewer, and sometimes to make a final selection. Your Capture One will give accurate 100% views as will Nikon's NX Studio. I don't use Apple's photos.

Steve, thanks. The issue I'm trying to understand and solve is around fast checks on photo files (and pixel peep photos at actual size on the web). I already tried Lyn (it's great, reminds me of Irfan I've been using for 20+ years) and wrote to Lyn's support about the same issue: Lyn's Zoom to Actual Size gives me the same wrong magnification as Chrome, Safari and Preview. Apple's photos is for reference to illustrate the problem to those who don't use photo editing apps.

 

[Nikus]

I still don't fully understand. In Photos, there is no "100%" as far as I can see. There is a slider bar in the top bar than can be adjusted to 100%. Is hat what you mean by "Photo app 100%?"

Yes.

I don't understand why in my case the difference is so big. In practical terms, when I compare photos outside of dedicated photo editing software, display size of photo files at 100% magnification on the same monitor in the same OS should be the same pixel for pixel as in the editors. But the only case when the size is the same is in the Photos app that is impractical to use for my purposes.

Thanks.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

I just experimented a bit here. I compared 4 apps: Photos, Preview, Lyn, and EdgeView. When my sample photo was set to 100%/Actual Size in these apps, Photos and EdgeView were identical. Preview and Lyn were identical, and significantly larger than the other two.

I have absolutely no explanation for this, but it seems to suggest that there are 2 different ways to calculate "Actual Size".

As an aside... thanks to techiesteve for mentioning Lyn. I've been pretty happy with EdgeView as a graphics viewer, and I am super picky about this. Lyn may have won me over... wow is it fast!

 

[MacInWin]

I just experimented a bit here. I compared 4 apps: Photos, Preview, Lyn, and EdgeView. When my sample photo was set to 100%/Actual Size in these apps, Photos and EdgeView were identical. Preview and Lyn were identical, and significantly larger than the other two.

I have absolutely no explanation for this, but it seems to suggest that there are 2 different ways to calculate "Actual Size".

As an aside... thanks to techiesteve for mentioning Lyn. I've been pretty happy with EdgeView as a graphics viewer, and I am super picky about this. Lyn may have won me over... wow is it fast!

It's likely a rendering issue. 100%/Actual size apparently does not mean pixel/pixel equivalency. I wonder if there is a way to show one pixel on the screen for one pixel in the image? That way you could see if there is any real difference in the image.

 

[Nikus]

Thanks for confirming!

On Windows 11, for me the same thing happens when I set system scale to more than 100%, which is necessary for high res monitors. But there I know exactly by how much the system scale is over 100% and can reduce magnification to the inverse of that (e.g., system scaled to 150% - I reduce the magnification in Chorme from 100% to 67%). But Win11 default viewer (which sucks) does not have this problem like MacOS Preview and Irfan and similar viewers also work correctly for me. If only Lyn worked correctly!

Maybe it's a mistake in rendering based on DPI not native for the monitor? Or some app level scaling...

 

[Lifeisabeach]

AHA! I found the explanation! I had a feeling that it had something to do with printing!

If PDFs or images aren’t the correct size in Preview on Mac

In Preview on your Mac, you can set PDFs and images to be displayed at the same size on all screens, regardless of the screen’s resolution.

support.apple.com

 

[Nikus]

AHA! I found the explanation! I had a feeling that it had something to do with printing!

If PDFs or images aren’t the correct size in Preview on Mac

In Preview on your Mac, you can set PDFs and images to be displayed at the same size on all screens, regardless of the screen’s resolution.

support.apple.com

Thanks, but this was the first solution I tried. I chose the pixel for pixel option. That's why it's puzzling.
The printout option at Actual Size gives me an image smaller than Capture One/NX Studio/Photos app at 100%.
So the pixel for pixel option equals about 200% magnification in Photos app terms and printout equivalent gives ~50%. Fun!

 

[Lifeisabeach]

Thanks, but this was the first solution I tried. I chose the pixel for pixel option. That's why it's puzzling.
The printout option at Actual Size gives me an image smaller than Capture One/NX Studio/Photos app at 100%.
So the pixel for pixel option equals about 200% magnification in Photos app terms and printout equivalent gives ~50%. Fun!

Maybe for your given photo, but not for all. Not here it doesn't. Maybe it depends on your printer? I have no idea. I quite frankly don't know what you are expecting.

 

[Nikus]

I quite frankly don't know what you are expecting.

I expect Preview and Lyn to show photos at 100%/ Actual Size correctly, i.e. equal to Photos App and photo editing apps.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

I expect Preview and Lyn to show photos at 100%/ Actual Size correctly, i.e. equal to Photos App and photo editing apps.

Well they don't and we can't do anything about it. I suggest taking the question to Apple and the developer of Lyn.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

I found a better, much more detailed explanation about the difference between 100%, Actual Size, and Print Size. Yes, these are actually 3 different things. This was on Adobe's forums and the conversation is about Adobe's software, but this should lend some clarity on what is going on here.

100% vs Print Size vs Actual size : something stays unclear

Dear all, When the year starts, I used to teach my students how to properly preview a photoshop document : - that will be used on screen (View > 100%) - that will be printed (View > Print size) I also teach them how to properly set Preferences > Units and Rulers > Screen resolution, to their...

community.adobe.com

From the post I'm referring to... well it started with this question:

When the year starts, I used to teach my students how to properly preview a photoshop document :
- that will be used on screen (View > 100%)
- that will be printed (View > Print size)
I also teach them how to properly set Preferences > Units and Rulers > Screen resolution, to their screen ppi, in order to get accurate display size of their printed document on their own screen.

But then I see that function I never noticed before View > Actual size.
My question is simple : What is it for ?

And one good answer:

Actual Size considers your main monitor’s resolution and displays actual dimensions—if you show rulers and take a physical measurement 1" will equal 1".

Print Size uses your Preferences>Units & Rulers>Screen Resolution setting. If that setting is the same as your main monitor’s resolution, Actual Size and Print Size should be the same.

From reading around, it seems 100% isn't Actual Size, and is off from Actual Size due to UI scaling. I'm going to try something on my iMac....

EDIT: Confirmed! UI scaling absolutely is the difference between 100% and Actual Size. So what I did was changed the display resolution on my 27" iMac to its full 5K glory. No UI scaling. Opened up Photos and displayed a photo @ 100%; then same photo in Preview set to Actual Size. As you can see in the attached screen cap, I laid one over the other and they are identically displayed.



So... this is not an Apple thing or a developer thing. As in the Adobe forums, this is an issue in Windows also. It's just the way it is.

 

[Nikus]

Great digging and image-identical doggie, now that explains it.

I also looked for a solution and found one program which confirms your findings and gives more info -- GraficConverter by LemkeSoft. This is what the app displayed on start-up.

Smaller results in correct 100% equal to Photos/photo editors.

GraphicConverter is way too busy and complex to bridge my needs before committing to a new editor. I'll look for other scaling aware apps for quickly reviewing photos.

The developer of Lyn, which is fast and well designed but has the 100% scaling issue, hasn't responded and it's been a few days now.

Hope Preview, Chrome and Safari give users a scaling option someday.


As an aside, I've been struggling with the way Ventura (13.2.1) displays resolution options. I wanted to repeat your steps and pick M2 MBA's native resolution on the built-in display. The Display menu hides resolutions under Larger Text - More Space thumbnails. None of the four thumbnails give native resolution. I right clicked there and left clicked and option/ctrl/cmd clicked till I was all clicked out, but Custom Resolution options didn't appear. Learning ins and outs of Windows after DOS was much easier than figuring out MacOS after Windows. FORMAT brain: /Q

 

[MacInWin]

As an aside, I've been struggling with the way Ventura (13.2.1) displays resolution options. I wanted to repeat your steps and pick M2 MBA's native resolution on the built-in display. The Display menu hides resolutions under Larger Text - More Space thumbnails. None of the four thumbnails give native resolution. I right clicked there and left clicked and option/ctrl/cmd clicked till I was all clicked out, but Custom Resolution options didn't appear. Learning ins and outs of Windows after DOS was much easier than figuring out MacOS after Windows. FORMAT brain: /Q

Here you go: MacBook Air with M2 chip - Tech Specs

Look down that page to the specs, which are reported to be:

2560-by-1664 native resolution at 224 pixels per inch with
support for 1 billion colors

Apple is good for details, good place to start when you have questions.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

As an aside, I've been struggling with the way Ventura (13.2.1) displays resolution options. I wanted to repeat your steps and pick M2 MBA's native resolution on the built-in display. The Display menu hides resolutions under Larger Text - More Space thumbnails. None of the four thumbnails give native resolution. I right clicked there and left clicked and option/ctrl/cmd clicked till I was all clicked out, but Custom Resolution options didn't appear. Learning ins and outs of Windows after DOS was much easier than figuring out MacOS after Windows. FORMAT brain: /Q

I had to use a 3rd party app to force my iMac to run at its full native resolution with no UI scaling. And believe me... using it that way was painful! Everything was so tiny and I could barely see the cursor.

The app I use is Displays, aptly-enough titled. BetterDisplay is another that can do this.

 

[Nikus]

Here you go: MacBook Air with M2 chip - Tech Specs

Look down that page to the specs, which are reported to be:

Apple is good for details, good place to start when you have questions.

Thanks, guess my English is crap. I know the native resolution from the About menu. I meant the thumbnails that represent resolution do not give an option equal to 2560x1664 or means to list all resolutions.