losing control of bluetooth mouse and trackpad

Joined
Sep 20, 2024
Messages
9
Reaction score
2
Points
3
Hallo everybody. I have a 2017 iMac, running OS 13.6.9 Ventura. It has a wired keyboard, a bluetooth mouse, and a bluetooth trackpad. Sometimes I lose control of both the mouse and the trackpad, and my only option appears to be to force power off using the power button at the back. Can anyone give me any ideas as to why this might be happening, and what I might be able to do about it? Thanks for reading.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
16,379
Reaction score
4,735
Points
113
Location
Winchester, VA
Your Mac's Specs
MBP 16" 2023 (M3 Pro), iPhone 16 Pro, plus ATVs, AWatch, MacMinis (multiple)
Welcome to the forum. Diagnosing something that happens "sometimes" is very difficult. Can you give us any other symptoms/circumstances that trigger the loss of control? What mouse and what trackpad are you using?

BT uses a frequency that is shared with other wireless devices, including wireless telephones, wireless remote controls, some cell phones, etc. Any/all of those kinds of devices can interfere with the BT connection. Are any items near where you use the iMac and BT devices? Any other BT devices in the vicinity?
 
Joined
May 21, 2012
Messages
11,300
Reaction score
1,588
Points
113
Location
Southern New England
Your Mac's Specs
2024 M4 14" MBP, iPhone 16 Pro Max, Watch S7 & Watch S9, AirPods Pro 1
Have you tried turning either device off and back on to see if the BT re-acquires the connection?
 
OP
C
Joined
Sep 20, 2024
Messages
9
Reaction score
2
Points
3
Welcome to the forum. Diagnosing something that happens "sometimes" is very difficult. Can you give us any other symptoms/circumstances that trigger the loss of control? What mouse and what trackpad are you using?

BT uses a frequency that is shared with other wireless devices, including wireless telephones, wireless remote controls, some cell phones, etc. Any/all of those kinds of devices can interfere with the BT connection. Are any items near where you use the iMac and BT devices? Any other BT devices in the vicinity?
Thanks very much. I was confused at first, wondering what British Telecom had to do with anything, then I realised it was Bluetooth! :)

My computer and my upstairs neighbour's TV are connected to my router wirelessly, but not by Bluetooth. I have a pair of Bluetooth headphones, but this happens when they're not in use, in fact I don't recall it happening when they were in use. My iPhone can connect to my computer via Bluetooth, but it's not something I generally have the need to do.

It's just really weird that it happens with both the trackpad and the mouse at the same time.

The mouse is a Magic Mouse 2, and the trackpad is quite an old one, not sure of the actual model.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
16,379
Reaction score
4,735
Points
113
Location
Winchester, VA
Your Mac's Specs
MBP 16" 2023 (M3 Pro), iPhone 16 Pro, plus ATVs, AWatch, MacMinis (multiple)
The radio freqencies used for WiFi and Bluetooth overlap a lot. Originally WiFi was just on 2.4 GHz, but now has two other bands, one at 5GHz and another at 6GHz. BT operates in the same 2.4GHz radio range as the WiFi in that band. So WiFI and BT can interfere. There are other uses for those frequencies, including wireless telephones for landlines, remote controls, etc. The wavelength at the 2.4GHz is 0.125 Meters, about 5 inches. So, there will be a peak in the signal every 2.5 inches or so from every device in the band. And when those peaks and valleys meet, they add together or cancel out, depending on the distance between the devices transmitting them and their own spatial relationships. Imagine your desk as a sea of peaks and valleys of signals from every device using the 2.4GHz band all merging, creating a continuously changing environment. And moving any of the various devices as little as an inch can make a huge difference in the signals it is seeing.

Now, most of what is there is noise, but there is also a signal that is key to the connection. When the Signal to Noise ratio gets too low, the signal disappears into the Noise and the device disconnects. You mentioned an upstairs neighbor. If that neighbor moves one of their devices, even just a little, it changes what is going on in your area as well. And if you have downstairs neighbors, they, too, even though not connected, can be sending out radio signals that also show as noise to your systems.

This constantly changing noise background is why the systems have huge redundancies built in to the logic of the receivers and transmitters. You "pair" BT devices because that way each can now ignore all the random signals from the other devices they can hear and listen only for the paired device(s) signals. But if the noise floor is too strong, it can overwhelm the receiver and it cannot hear the paired device in the noise. There are limits to the "magic."

It can, of course, also be something in the actual BT circuits in the iMac. That model is now 6 years old, and the BT transmiter/receiver may be declining. It does happen. The fact that when you lose connection you lost it to both of the devices at the same time would point to the iMac as the failure point. You could get a wired trackpad and a wired mouse to go along with the wired keyboard and solve the problem that way for probably the least amount of money. That's what I would do, but I would also be saving my money to get a newer Mac pretty soon. The iMac is trying to tell you it's old. Listen to it.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
5,190
Reaction score
548
Points
113
Location
North Carolina
Your Mac's Specs
Air M2 ('22) OS 15.3; M3 iMac ('23) OS 15.3; iPad Pro; iPhone 14
Thanks very much. I was confused at first, wondering what British Telecom had to do with anything, then I realised it was Bluetooth! :)

My computer and my upstairs neighbour's TV are connected to my router wirelessly, but not by Bluetooth. I have a pair of Bluetooth headphones, but this happens when they're not in use, in fact I don't recall it happening when they were in use. My iPhone can connect to my computer via Bluetooth, but it's not something I generally have the need to do.

It's just really weird that it happens with both the trackpad and the mouse at the same time.

The mouse is a Magic Mouse 2, and the trackpad is quite an old one, not sure of the actual model.
Hi ColinOsiris - keep in mind that Bluetooth is a short range wireless technology, i.e. 30+ ft is its maximum extension that relies on communication/pairing between two nearby devices - your router has nothing to do with establishing the signal, BUT as Jake explains the overlapping 2.4 GHz bands can cause interference (although pairing is meant to avoid that issue) - also keep in mind as already stated that MANY devices operate on those bands. For example, microwave ovens (is your equipment near one?); and for me my wireless headphones - whenever I have the phones on and pass our operating MW oven I lose the sound. Dave
 
OP
C
Joined
Sep 20, 2024
Messages
9
Reaction score
2
Points
3
The radio freqencies used for WiFi and Bluetooth overlap a lot. Originally WiFi was just on 2.4 GHz, but now has two other bands, one at 5GHz and another at 6GHz. BT operates in the same 2.4GHz radio range as the WiFi in that band. So WiFI and BT can interfere. There are other uses for those frequencies, including wireless telephones for landlines, remote controls, etc. The wavelength at the 2.4GHz is 0.125 Meters, about 5 inches. So, there will be a peak in the signal every 2.5 inches or so from every device in the band. And when those peaks and valleys meet, they add together or cancel out, depending on the distance between the devices transmitting them and their own spatial relationships. Imagine your desk as a sea of peaks and valleys of signals from every device using the 2.4GHz band all merging, creating a continuously changing environment. And moving any of the various devices as little as an inch can make a huge difference in the signals it is seeing.

Now, most of what is there is noise, but there is also a signal that is key to the connection. When the Signal to Noise ratio gets too low, the signal disappears into the Noise and the device disconnects. You mentioned an upstairs neighbor. If that neighbor moves one of their devices, even just a little, it changes what is going on in your area as well. And if you have downstairs neighbors, they, too, even though not connected, can be sending out radio signals that also show as noise to your systems.

This constantly changing noise background is why the systems have huge redundancies built in to the logic of the receivers and transmitters. You "pair" BT devices because that way each can now ignore all the random signals from the other devices they can hear and listen only for the paired device(s) signals. But if the noise floor is too strong, it can overwhelm the receiver and it cannot hear the paired device in the noise. There are limits to the "magic."

It can, of course, also be something in the actual BT circuits in the iMac. That model is now 6 years old, and the BT transmiter/receiver may be declining. It does happen. The fact that when you lose connection you lost it to both of the devices at the same time would point to the iMac as the failure point. You could get a wired trackpad and a wired mouse to go along with the wired keyboard and solve the problem that way for probably the least amount of money. That's what I would do, but I would also be saving my money to get a newer Mac pretty soon. The iMac is trying to tell you it's old. Listen to it.
Thanks very much. I think that's the longest reply I've ever had on a forum!

If I'm sitting at my desk, I'll use the trackpad, and if I'm sitting in my armchair to watch TV, I use the mouse.

I'm very grateful for the detailed explanation. Yes, the iMac is old, but I'm retired now, and can't currently afford to replace it. The wired mouse and trackpad are one option.

I also have a newer MBP. I'd be happy to use that instead, but I'd really miss the resolution of the iMac. Would it be possible to use the iMac's monitor as a second monitor for the MBP? I already have a couple of monitors, but they're nowhere as high a resolution as the iMac.

There is one upstairs neighbour, using my broadband, and one next door. I doubt the upstairs neighbour moves his TV.

One thing I'm curious about - you said "the BT transmiter/receiver may be declining". What does this mean, please? How can that be? Do other circuits in my computer randomly decline as well? That would explain a helluva lot!
 
OP
C
Joined
Sep 20, 2024
Messages
9
Reaction score
2
Points
3
Hi ColinOsiris - keep in mind that Bluetooth is a short range wireless technology, i.e. 30+ ft is its maximum extension that relies on communication/pairing between two nearby devices - your router has nothing to do with establishing the signal, BUT as Jake explains the overlapping 2.4 GHz bands can cause interference (although pairing is meant to avoid that issue) - also keep in mind as already stated that MANY devices operate on those bands. For example, microwave ovens (is your equipment near one?); and for me my wireless headphones - whenever I have the phones on and pass our operating MW oven I lose the sound. Dave
Thanks Dave. Both of the devices are well within 30'. I don't have a microwave. There are no other devices that I can imagine are interfering. There's a printer, only switched on when in use, a stereo amplifier, and various hard disks, all with cables. The only other thing is my Netgear server, which is wired to the router, and which the computer connects to wirelessly, but not by Bluetooth. There are also my Bluetooth headphones, as I said, but they don't seem to be part of this problem.

PS. It's Colm, not Colin. :)
 
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
5,190
Reaction score
548
Points
113
Location
North Carolina
Your Mac's Specs
Air M2 ('22) OS 15.3; M3 iMac ('23) OS 15.3; iPad Pro; iPhone 14
Thanks Dave. Both of the devices are well within 30'. I don't have a microwave. There are no other devices that I can imagine are interfering. There's a printer, only switched on when in use, a stereo amplifier, and various hard disks, all with cables. The only other thing is my Netgear server, which is wired to the router, and which the computer connects to wirelessly, but not by Bluetooth. There are also my Bluetooth headphones, as I said, but they don't seem to be part of this problem.

PS. It's Colm, not Colin. :)
Sorry Colm - good luck with the issue. Dave
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
16,379
Reaction score
4,735
Points
113
Location
Winchester, VA
Your Mac's Specs
MBP 16" 2023 (M3 Pro), iPhone 16 Pro, plus ATVs, AWatch, MacMinis (multiple)
If I'm sitting at my desk, I'll use the trackpad, and if I'm sitting in my armchair to watch TV, I use the mouse.
You move the iMac? I'm slightly confused by that sentence.
There is one upstairs neighbour, using my broadband, and one next door. I doubt the upstairs neighbour moves his TV.
But does he move his phone? Or his mouse? Or his wireless trackpad? Or the remote control for the TV? And the interference pattern changes when his TV is change from OFF to ON, and the other way.
One thing I'm curious about - you said "the BT transmiter/receiver may be declining". What does this mean, please? How can that be? Do other circuits in my computer randomly decline as well? That would explain a helluva lot!
It's a transmitter. To transmit, it has circuitry that has to have relatively high current flow through electronic components to get the signal to the antenna to transmit it. Those components can, over time, become less efficient and the resulting signal decline. All it takes is a little roll-off and the entire signa/noise ratio will change.

Do other circuits decline? Yes, but the decline is usually very slow and goes unnoticed. The LEDs in the screen can very slowly grow dimmer over time. We either fail to notice the decline, or we just turn the brightness up a bit and blame it on growing older and our eyes needing brighter screens. Then we get a new screen and are startled at the brightness of it! It's called entropy, and every system suffers from it.

And the trackpad and mouse could be interfering with each other, too. Make sure to turn off the one you are NOT using so that the other device has full control of the cursor logic.
 
OP
C
Joined
Sep 20, 2024
Messages
9
Reaction score
2
Points
3
Thnaks. No, the iMac doesn't move, I do, sorry, poor explanation. It is on my desk, with the trackpad, but I will sit in the further away armchair, where the mouse is, to watch TV.

AFAIK, he doesn't have a computer, so it's only his phone and the TV remote that could move.

Ah yes, entropy. Entropy, entropy, all is entropy! But how dare it interfere with my computer!

That's a thought, I will switch the mouse off when I'm not using it, sounds like a good plan. I'm never going to need them both simultaneously.

Thanks very much for your thoughts, and apologies for my tardiness.
 

Shop Amazon


Shop for your Apple, Mac, iPhone and other computer products on Amazon.
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon and affiliated sites.
Top