Upgrade to Catalina and external hard drives.

[bernard smith]

Hi,

I have a 2017 iMac 5k Retina 27” to upgrade to Catalina from Mojave.

It has a 1Tb SSD ( Macintosh HD ) internal drive so I don't think that there will be any problem there as it is already running as APFS



However I have external hard drives for my photographic files used in Lightroom and Photoshop.

These are NOT SSD's but spinning drives.. and this is where I am concerned most.


The first is a "G technology" (4 TB) .... SATA this is where all my photographic files are kept.

I also have 2 Samsung D3 (6 TB) (spinning) drives which are copied from the above drive using Carbon Copy Cloner to give redundancy in my set up. This means that I have 3 copies of the files ( 1 on the first G Technology 4 TB and 2 more on the Samsung D3 6 TB drives )...


My question is this:

Will my EHD's ( G Drive and Samsung... spinners ) be recognised so that I can access the files after upgrading from Mojave to Catalina?
They are set up as Mac OS Extended (Journaled) with GUID partition map.


I also have a "G technology" (1 TB) SSD that is used exclusively for Time Machine. Will this be OK after the upgrade to Catalina?

I really am scared of losing the ability to use my external drives.


If there are any articles regarding this then I would appreciate a link to them.




Cheers

Bernard

 

[krs]

My question is this:

Will my EHD's ( G Drive and Samsung... spinners ) be recognised so that I can access the files after upgrading from Mojave to Catalina?
They are set up as Mac OS Extended (Journaled) with GUID partition map.


I also have a "G technology" (1 TB) SSD that is used exclusively for Time Machine. Will this be OK after the upgrade to Catalina?

I really am scared of losing the ability to use my external drives.


If there are any articles regarding this then I would appreciate a link to them.




Cheers

Bernard

Hi Bernard,

I don't see any problems being able to access the data on your external drives after you upgraded to Catalina, but just to be on the safe side you could always make a current clone of your Mojave boot drive.
That way, if there is any issue it's very easy to go back to Mojave if need be.

I would be more concerned about any 32-bit applications which you may have with Mojave and which will no longer work after upgrading to Catalina.

 

[bernard smith]

Hi Bernard,

I don't see any problems being able to access the data on your external drives after you upgraded to Catalina, but just to be on the safe side you could always make a current clone of your Mojave boot drive.
That way, if there is any issue it's very easy to go back to Mojave if need be.

I would be more concerned about any 32-bit applications which you may have with Mojave and which will no longer work after upgrading to Catalina.

Hi

Thanks for your reply...
I am aware that some apps are only 32 bit as I have checked the list in system report but thankfully they are not important to me.... there is just one app that I would like in 64 bit for a vinyl record turntable that I use so I have contacted the supplier regards this.

What do you mean by my Mojave boot drive? is this my Time Machine back up?

Regards

Bernard

 

[krs]

What do you mean by my Mojave boot drive? is this my Time Machine back up?

No, Time Machine is great if you deleted or changed a file and need to go back to the older version.
But if your main drive crashes or becomes unreadable for some reason, it becomes a bit awkward to recover.
For one, you have to have a replacement drive (orwait until you get one) and then download or recover the macOS and all the data.

What I was getting at is to make a clone of your Mojave boot drive using an external drive and either SuperDuper (SD) or CarbonCopyCloner.(CCC)
That should be done anyway (also with Catalina) as a backup that yuou can use immediately if needed (ie main drive crashes).
Once you have a clone of your nternal Mojave drive on the external - you can check it by booting up on the external (hold down the option key while booting to bring up all bootable drives).
If all looks good, upgrade to Catalina on your internal drive.
Should something then not work to your safisfaction, you can always use the SD or CCC cloning software to clone Mojave from the external drive back to your internal drive and you are back where you started from - running Mojave.

I have done that with all my previous macOS upgrades - not with Catalina however, but there is no reason why that should work any different.
I decided Catalina is of no benefit to me at this time so I'm just going to stay on Mojave for now.

 

[bernard smith]

No, Time Machine is great if you deleted or changed a file and need to go back to the older version.
But if your main drive crashes or becomes unreadable for some reason, it becomes a bit awkward to recover.
For one, you have to have a replacement drive (orwait until you get one) and then download or recover the macOS and all the data.

What I was getting at is to make a clone of your Mojave boot drive using an external drive and either SuperDuper (SD) or CarbonCopyCloner.(CCC)
That should be done anyway (also with Catalina) as a backup that yuou can use immediately if needed (ie main drive crashes).
Once you have a clone of your nternal Mojave drive on the external - you can check it by booting up on the external (hold down the option key while booting to bring up all bootable drives).
If all looks good, upgrade to Catalina on your internal drive.
Should something then not work to your safisfaction, you can always use the SD or CCC cloning software to clone Mojave from the external drive back to your internal drive and you are back where you started from - running Mojave.

I have done that with all my previous macOS upgrades - not with Catalina however, but there is no reason why that should work any different.
I decided Catalina is of no benefit to me at this time so I'm just going to stay on Mojave for now.

 

[bernard smith]

I will have to google/you tube for how to make a clone of the Mojave boot drive.. Not clear in my mind what it is but I am sure that I will sort it out. Would I be able to add that to my external hard drive that I already have my photographic files on as I don't really want to buy yet another hard drive just for this boot drive?


Cheers and thanks for you all your help to date.

Bernard

 

[chscag]

You should not attempt to create a clone of your internal drive to an already in use external hard drive. The reason is that the data on the in use external hard drive may be overwritten.

 

[krs]

Did you partition any of your external drives?
If so, you could use an empty partition of at least the size required for your internal drive to make a clone.
But I would not recommend that.

The clone should be a stand-alone backup.
All you need in your case is a 1TB spinner - I use the 1TB USB 3 drives that can be bought for less than $US50.-
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CRG7BBH/?tag=macforums0e4-20
See what you can find in Australia

I see from your first post that you already used CCC to make a copy of your data.
You can use CCC to also make a clone.

 

[bernard smith]

Did you partition any of your external drives?
If so, you could use an empty partition of at least the size required for your internal drive to make a clone.
But I would not recommend that.

The clone should be a stand-alone backup.
All you need in your case is a 1TB spinner - I use the 1TB USB 3 drives that can be bought for less than $US50.-
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CRG7BBH/?tag=macforums0e4-20
See what you can find in Australia

I see from your first post that you already used CCC to make a copy of your data.
You can use CCC to also make a clone.

So I can make a clone of the OS using CCC but I just need to get a drive of some kind. Does it have to be a spinner or will a pen drive do the same thing?

 

[bernard smith]

So I can make a clone of the OS using CCC but I just need to get a drive of some kind. Does it have to be a spinner or will a pen drive do the same thing?

Thanks

I have just watched a video of how to use CCC to make a bootable clone and it looks very easy. I guess that I will need to get a new drive for this ( maybe 1 TB ) which I can use for the bootable clone. If I get really comfortable with Catalina and decide to stick with it then I will erase the bootable clone of Mojave and make one for Catalina.

Just have to look and see how big my current start up is so that I get the correct size of disk.

Thanks

Bernard

 

[krs]

Thanks

I have just watched a video of how to use CCC to make a bootable clone and it looks very easy. I guess that I will need to get a new drive for this ( maybe 1 TB ) which I can use for the bootable clone. If I get really comfortable with Catalina and decide to stick with it then I will erase the bootable clone of Mojave and make one for Catalina.

That is the best way to go.
As a backup I would definitely not recommend using a USB flash drive although it would probably work.
I know it does with HFS+, not sure if the new Apple file system would create a problem - don't think so but have not tried it.
Reason I would not recommend a USB Flash drive is
a. Reliability
b.Speed

 

[bernard smith]

So I can make a clone of the OS using CCC but I just need to get a drive of some kind. Does it have to be a spinner or will a pen drive do the same thing?

ordered the new drive so I am on my way to a new OS ( perhaps )

 

[IWT]

I got the impression that the main thrust of Bernard's question was once he Upgraded to macOS Catalina with APFS as the Operating System, would his Mac still be able to read the data currently stored on 3 spinning External Hard Drives which are formatted Mac OS X Extended (Journaled)?

And the answer is YES. In fact, Bernard, your current Mac running macOS Mojave is already formatted APFS and is able to write to, and read from, your 3 spinners. This will continue to be the case with Catalina.

Moreover, APFS is particularly suited to SSDs and as your EHDs are spinners, Mac OS X Extended (Journaled) is the better format option for them.

Ian

 

[bernard smith]

I got the impression that the main thrust of Bernard's question was once he Upgraded to macOS Catalina with APFS as the Operating System, would his Mac still be able to read the data currently stored on 3 spinning External Hard Drives which are formatted Mac OS X Extended (Journaled)?

And the answer is YES. In fact, Bernard, your current Mac running macOS Mojave is already formatted APFS and is able to write to, and read from, your 3 spinners. This will continue to be the case with Catalina.

Moreover, APFS is particularly suited to SSDs and as your EHDs are spinners, Mac OS X Extended (Journaled) is the better format option for them.

Ian

Thanks Ian,

Again you are there to help.

The only thing that is not quite settled in my mind is just how to make a bootable clone of my Mojave OS ( using Carbon Copy Cloner ) just in case the Catalina is not OK. If it is OK then I will erase the bootable version of Mojave and create a bootable clone of Catalina.


Cheers

Bernard

 

[Randy B. Singer]

Will my EHD's ( G Drive and Samsung... spinners ) be recognised so that I can access the files after upgrading from Mojave to Catalina?
They are set up as Mac OS Extended (Journaled) with GUID partition map.

Yes, Catalina has no problem reading external HFS+ formatted hard drives and it will not attempt to automatically reformat them as APFS.

I also have a "G technology" (1 TB) SSD that is used exclusively for Time Machine. Will this be OK after the upgrade to Catalina?

I have to assume, since you were using that drive under Mojave, that it was formatted as HFS+, since Time Machine cannot back up to an external hard drive formatted as APFS, and indeed, if you try to do so it will automatically reformat the drive to HFS+. It is the same under Catalina.

 

[bernard smith]

Yes, Catalina has no problem reading external HFS+ formatted hard drives and it will not attempt to automatically reformat them as APFS.



I have to assume, since you were using that drive under Mojave, that it was formatted as HFS+, since Time Machine cannot back up to an external hard drive formatted as APFS, and indeed, if you try to do so it will automatically reformat the drive to HFS+. It is the same under Catalina.

Hi Randy

Yes I am using the 1TB dedicated SSD for Time Machine as a stand alone drive with Mojave. (just for Time Machine)
I have just checked and this drive is labelled as :

USB External Physical Volume
Mac OS Extended (Journaled)

with a partition map of GUID
and S.M.A.R.T. status not supported.

So it is not HFS+ but appears to be working fine


Cheers

Bernard

 

[IWT]

The only thing that is not quite settled in my mind is just how to make a bootable clone of my Mojave OS ( using Carbon Copy Cloner ) just in case the Catalina is not OK. If it is OK then I will erase the bootable version of Mojave and create a bootable clone of Catalina

Download Carbon Copy Cloner (CCC). Go through the usual steps of Installation.

Open CCC. You will see something like this:



The SOURCE is Macintosh HD chosen from the list of Drives under Volumes on the left.

For DESTINATION, choose the EHD that you wish to use to hold the Clone (It should be a fresh EHD ie with no other data on it. Use Disk Utility (DU) to Erase the Drive, give it a name - CCC in my case. As to Format, this is a direct quote from the developer: "Both APFS and HFS (aka as Mac OS X Extended (Journaled)) are valid destination formats when using Carbon Copy Cloner 5 on High Sierra and Mojave".

NB SafetyNet should be set as ON (see under the CCC image above)

You'll see that I have set up a SCHEDULE to automatically create a Clone once/day at 2am. This is NOT mandatory, especially if you just want to make a single clone. You can manually make as many clones as you desire if you so wish.

When you've got SOURCE & DESTINATION sorted and with SafetyNet ON, Click on "Clone", bottom right (not shown on image above). When it's finished, it will stop.

If you are in the mood for a detailed read, then the following Link from the Developer gives you the whole business:

Everything you need to know about Carbon Copy Cloner and APFS - Bombich Software

bombich.com

Anything not clear, Bernard, let us know.

Ian

 

[krs]

I got the impression that the main thrust of Bernard's question was once he Upgraded to macOS Catalina with APFS as the Operating System, would his Mac still be able to read the data currently stored on 3 spinning External Hard Drives which are formatted Mac OS X Extended (Journaled)?

And the answer is YES.

In my mind, APFS is not the potential issue when moving to Catalina; as was pointed out, Mohave already uses APFS as the file system, the potential issue is a file type on the external drives that requires an applicaton that is only available as a 32-bit application.
In that case the file would open fine with Mojave but once the OS is upgraded to Catalina that 32-bit application won't launch and the file is then potentially not accessible.

 

[bernard smith]

Download Carbon Copy Cloner (CCC). Go through the usual steps of Installation.

Open CCC. You will see something like this:

View attachment 32685

The SOURCE is Macintosh HD chosen from the list of Drives under Volumes on the left.

For DESTINATION, choose the EHD that you wish to use to hold the Clone (It should be a fresh EHD ie with no other data on it. Use Disk Utility (DU) to Erase the Drive, give it a name - CCC in my case. As to Format, this is a direct quote from the developer: "Both APFS and HFS (aka as Mac OS X Extended (Journaled)) are valid destination formats when using Carbon Copy Cloner 5 on High Sierra and Mojave".

NB SafetyNet should be set as ON (see under the CCC image above)

You'll see that I have set up a SCHEDULE to automatically create a Clone once/day at 2am. This is NOT mandatory, especially if you just want to make a single clone. You can manually make as many clones as you desire if you so wish.

When you've got SOURCE & DESTINATION sorted and with SafetyNet ON, Click on "Clone", bottom right (not shown on image above). When it's finished, it will stop.

If you are in the mood for a detailed read, then the following Link from the Developer gives you the whole business:

Everything you need to know about Carbon Copy Cloner and APFS - Bombich Software

bombich.com

Anything not clear, Bernard, let us know.

Ian

In my mind, APFS is not the potential issue when moving to Catalina; as was pointed out, Mohave already uses APFS as the file system, the potential issue is a file type on the external drives that requires an applicaton that is only available as a 32-bit application.
In that case the file would open fine with Mojave but once the OS is upgraded to Catalina that 32-bit application won't launch and the file is then potentially not accessible.

I have checked my apps for 32 / 64 bit and there is just 1 app for a vinyl record turntable that is not in 64 bit. My major concern was anything used in my photographic workflow , which is the main use of the computer and everything is 64 bit, so all looks good to go.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

Hi Randy

Yes I am using the 1TB dedicated SSD for Time Machine as a stand alone drive with Mojave. (just for Time Machine)
I have just checked and this drive is labelled as :

USB External Physical Volume
Mac OS Extended (Journaled)...

So it is not HFS+ but appears to be working fine

HFS+ is exactly the same as "Mac OS Extended".